Changeset: 28307854
nouveaux cantons de la Gironde : Mérignac-1 et 2
Closed by Verdy_p
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (7975 fr) |
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source | OpenStreetMap (Mapnik); Bing; Cadastre |
Discussion
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Comment from Super-Map
Hi Verdy_p, I try to improve this map (like usually) and to clean up... as you're the owner of this relation: "n°4505476" this one is broken and not really useful any more... (look like an open relation) and this one seem malformed: "n°4505478" but "close" and you're the owner too... so it will be useful to delete all "useless" relation or broken... there is enough mistakes on the map as you know... By advance thanks for your understanding. As we want all this map to be "improved" and fully functional in the "future"... but this "future" isn't so close as the work is so "huge"... But if everyone try to work on it in this "goal" we will be able to go "forward"... By advance thanks for your understanding.
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Comment from Verdy_p
Tu te trompes.
Ce sont les limites en vigueur depuis 2015 (nouveaux cantons élargis).
Ces relations étaient bonnes mais cassées depuis par d'autres.
Elles doivent donc être réparées à nouveau, et non détruites ! -
Comment from Verdy_p
C'est l'utilisateur "Fred_OSM" qui les a cassées.
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Comment from Verdy_p
Il y a eu aussi l'utilisateur "max93600"
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Comment from Verdy_p
Je vais réparer ça. Note: si tu ne comprends pas le français, pas la peine surtout de toucher à ça.
If you don't understand French (as above), please do not touche these relations because you made false assumptions. -
Comment from Verdy_p
Note: I'm not the "owner" of these relations. I was one of the creators and editors. All these relations were valid before they were broken last year.
As far as I know, the "new" cantons have not changed since 2015 when they were enlarged with the new "parity" voting system (forcing many pairs of older cantons to be merged and slightly modified).
The legal reference links were also included in all these.
But other users did not care last year and broke them.
I'll need to reconstruct them from the history: about 50 ways have been incorrectly dropped in the boundary relation beween Merignac-1 and Merignac-2. -
Comment from Super-Map
Hi Verdy_p, Proud to be French isn't it? I saw the flag on your picture profile... '-) I understand, but as you can to believe, I haven't yet the time to check all and I do not "politic" so I'm not able to fix anything like this... this is why I have contacted you. Ne le prenez pas mal, vous n'êtes en rien "visé". J'aime la cartographie tout comme vous, mais j'aime le faire bien! Il y a suffisamment: "d'irresponsable"!... Et pas seulement en cartographie "ouverte"...
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Comment from Verdy_p
For that mattr, you confirm that you are not French, and don't know exactly how boundaries are organized. All these were properly sourced with legal references in tags. Tis should be sufficient for you to make further checks and you would have seen that the fact these relations were broken were because of other people not checking their other changes when they broke something that was valid. I have repaired a few hours ago the damages there.
Please, if you don't understand French or French law, don't touch, or "fix" or delete boundaries, jsut contact other people to fix what you detect. Look at the history (it's not always easy with iD, but history is simple to look at using JOSM and such fixes on boundaries are easier and faster to perform in JOSM). -
Comment from Verdy_p
Also you should know that French cantons exist in two forms, the older form used until 2015 and referenced in many legal texts (notably in Code Rural for administrative purpose or environmental and local legislations) and new cantons for electoral purpose only (for departmental elections where they are only electoral boundaries, not administrative).
The "end_date" in March 2015 concerns in fact only the electoral purpose, and new legal texts referencing them since 2015. But there are tons of other legal texts remaining that apply using the boundaries that were effective when the legislation was enacted (and which is still referenced also in commercial/private contracts, or on contracts for publci markets that are still effective and whose effect must remain traceable for at least 10 years where they are still opposable in courts).
So several definitions have to coexist and date matters. For now there's no reason to delete canton boundaries that were effective for all pupose until March 2015.
The major reason why cantons were completely redefined in 2015 was the application of electoral law for parity in depearmental elections: the total number of seats was not changed, but law warrantied that an equal number of men and women would be elected; so tow council members were elected by canton instead of just one, and so the total number of cantons was roughly divided by 2; some were merged, some not because of legal quorums of residents, a few were slightly modified. This draw a new electoral map, but also a new separate definition of cantons specifically for departmental elections.
Other usages have persisted and were not canceled. Older boundaries continue to be effective in various legal documents still enforceable even if *new* documents can no longer reference them. -
Comment from Verdy_p
Another reason why old cantons up to March 2015 are kept is for statistical continuity purpose. For example, the official French INSEE institute maintains continuity of statistics for at least 10 years (this is also in conformance with international right and European legislation: actions must be traceable and comparable over a significant period of time, as it is important for correct analysis of new changes or legal reforms, some of them may be experimental and could be cancelled/reverted later). And it is also important culturally (for example the older 26 metropolitan regions are kept in OSM, also with an "end_date" tag, even if the 13 new ones are effective. The "end_tag" is used to make the distinction and allow efficient filtering when searching in OSM. Various maps and statistics depend on such "historic" data that are not just focused on the present state.
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Comment from Super-Map
"...But other users did not care last year and broke them"... unfortunately it's often the case in OSM like in "real life"... like others "open projects"... As you know, we know who we are, but the "other"... And of course I know ID, I know ID history and certainly one, with some persons to know how to use very well JOSM and much more the "history". You aren't' yet "targeted, just see something wrong and like me you "work" on OSM since "years"... And like in the real life, I don't want to do "politics" because, just my citizen right when I have this luck"! If we can call that a "luck"... but you know in a "close country" without a democratic process it's always worse! Don't worry I know who I am... But I have lot of reasons to be named: "SuperMap"! In this project and this one isn't yet only one project! As you know we do all mistakes sometime... in this project al in the real life. But like in the real life some "persons" do not mistakes, but do something intentionally! And in this case, they must be FULLY RESPONSIBLE of them acts! This is a wonderful project with very nice purpose so often misunderstanding for the most of us and maybe it's better like this (you know the world where we living all...). English is the "international" language", so OPEN for everyone... If you have repair all relations, I have seen at less two listed "above", so: "THANKS you"! Thanks for your "explanation, but you know, I'm not really a "teenager" any more since "years" '-), I understand all even without you help... but I can't do all, you know... in the most of time I'm perfectly able to make all corrections needed for all type of relation even all messages of the software itself... Like usually I'm "autodidact" in this project and lot of other "stuff"... I love this project and I know why, but I able to tell you I hate certain" behaviours" and stupid "speech"... you know, it's like in the real life we have always a "black sheep" somewhere... never satisfy and so often very "jealous" because they are UNABLE TO DO that you're able! Perfectly the same in the real life! As you know, It's an open project, everyone is FREE to learn and improve this WONDERFUL project! And I want to see this project to go FORWARD, not the contrary! I know lot French laws, because... And I'm very "tolerant" persons with lot of "patience"... however to be "tolerant" have never been to be "blind & stupid"!... One more time thanks so much for to have spent several minutes of your time. As you know in OSM (like elsewhere) we must follow the "rules", in this case: "the WIKI", because if we want this project fully "functional" it must be interpreted by lot of "software". It's why I do lot of endeavour on this project and make it: "a reality"!
Ways (1-20 of 27)
- 1
- 2
- 185996935, v2
- 323460739, v1
- 186045432, v2
- 186045433, v2
- 186045435, v2
- 280489967, v2
- 32602396, v11
- 32602397, v7
- 32602439, v3
- Avenue de Belfort (25661184), v17
- Avenue de la Marne (24700789), v16
- Avenue de la Marne (186045431), v4
- Avenue des Eyquems (47431005), v6
- Avenue des Eyquems (25769029), v15
- Avenue des Eyquems (181279042), v7
- Avenue des Eyquems (25769036), v20
- Avenue du Président John Fitzgerald Kennedy (187898351), v5
- Avenue du Président John Fitzgerald Kennedy (22929364), v8
- Avenue du Président John Fitzgerald Kennedy (22929367), v6
- Avenue du Président John Fitzgerald Kennedy (258507573), v3
Relations (10)
- 033. Gironde cantons (mars 2015) (4486453), v2
- Mérignac-1 (2501855), v14
- Mérignac-2 (2501856), v15
- Le Haillan (105276), v12
- Martignas-sur-Jalle (105279), v8
- Mérignac (105275), v25
- Saint-Jean-d'Illac (110591), v8
- Mérignac (canton de Mérignac-2) (4505476), v1
- Mérignac-1 (4505477), v1
- Mérignac-2 (4505478), v1
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