Changeset: 65891774
Remove unecessary access tags.
Closed by Daveymorrisuk
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (14460 en_GB) |
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source | Real world experience |
Discussion
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Comment from SomeoneElse
Please don't do this. By removing these tags you're taking away information gathered the hard way - on foot.
To be clear, a highway=footway may have many different access tags. "foot=yes" implies that someone has a legal right to walk there (e.g. on a public footpath); "foot=permissive" means that there isn't a legal right but the landowner allows it, etc.
A footway added without access tags might mean that someone's just added it from imagery with a view to surveying later. -
Comment from trigpoint
Also highway=bridleway is a very UK specific term, which many routers do not understand.
Removing access tags from bridleways has resulted in these being bypassed by foot/bicycle routers. -
Comment from SomeoneElse
@Daveymorrisuk Although there's been no comment here I'll revert this because you're definitely noticing changeset discussion comments elsewhere (see http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=2068507 ). I appreciate that you were trying to "do the right thing" here, but removing the tags that you removed here did degrade the information in OSM.
Best Regards,
Andy (on behalf of OSM's Data Working Group) -
Comment from Daveymorrisuk
Sorry I didn’t reply because I didn’t agree with or didn’t understand your comments.
Maybe I don’t understand how removing an explicit tag when it’s exactly the same as an implied tag degrades the map. A highway=footway has an implied tag of foot=yes or am I misunderstanding how you are interpreting the data?
In any case I will not remove any tags like this in future.
Regards,
Dave. -
Comment from trigpoint
Hi Dave
In the case of footways the implied tag is yes, meaning it is allowed. You also removed designated which means it is a legal right of way. This is important for many mappers to be able to see in the database.
You also removed access tags from bridleways, which is a bit of a GB centric idea. Many routers will not allow foot or bicycle access unless explicitly tagged. Your changes came to our attention due to failing to route a walker along a bridleway which you had removed the access tags from.
If you need further clarification please ask.Cheers Phil
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Comment from Daveymorrisuk
Hi Phil,
Sorry i'll correct myself. The implied tag for highway=footway is designated.
So i'm confused. I'm here to make the map better not worse. So in order to understand this better I would like to delve into this in a bit more detail. At the risk of sounding lazy do you know which way it was that caused the specific problem?
Thanks, Dave. -
Comment from trigpoint
Hi Dave
The specific problem was caused by https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/329362014
The usual tag for footway which is a public right of way is desgnated in England and Wales, but OSM is an international project so we cannot simply assume this to be the worldwide view.Also many footpaths, will be =yes, particularly those in urban areas.
The specic problems with this change were the removal of tags from bridleways.The size of this edit, you changed 699 ways, suggests you could not possibly have looked at them all and this edit would have fallen under the automated editing policy and should have been discussed with the community
See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conductCheers Phil
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Comment from SomeoneElse
OK, I've now changed these access tags back but left other subsequent changes in place in https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/76416049 . For an example of the sort of changes made, see http://osm.mapki.com/history/way.php?id=329362014 - I've restored access tags that were deleted, but left other tag and geometry changes as is. The node restores in https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/76416049 look like a faux pas by the JOSM reverter. Another possible issue would be if a particular way ID "changed its role" between this changeset and the present day. Hopefully that's unlikely as I'd have expected to have spotted that at JOSM validator stage.
Best Regards,
Andy -
Comment from SomeoneElse
One more thing - re "The implied tag for highway=footway is designated", https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dfootway does indeed currently say that, but that is simply rubbish. In a very narrow German interpretation of "where highway=footway tends to be used", and where German urban levels of signage are present it is true, but that's not the case here.
Unfortunately it isn't the first case and it won't be the last case where someone has edited the wiki without (a) thinking about features worldwide rather than just in their small country and (b) trying to use the wiki to change the way people map.
Best Regards,
Andy
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Nodes (2)
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