Changeset: 32255900
Bridge layer adjustments; misc. adjustments
Closed by Bickendan
Tags
created_by | iD 1.7.3 |
---|---|
host | https://www.openstreetmap.org/id |
imagery_used | Bing |
locale | en-US |
Discussion
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Comment from Baloo Uriza
Trying to work out why any part of US 26 remotely qualifies as a trunk, which would generally be typified by a limited access route; in this case, the Ross Island Bridge really should be primary and connected by a series of primary_link to anything that isn't a ramp directly attached to Naito Parkway, which would obviously be trunk_link.
Let's try to avoid priority creep on the highway=* tag, it's almost never justified but does greatly complicate things for routers and mappers.
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Comment from Bickendan
Considering the Ross Island Bridge has the highest non-freeway speed limit crossing the Willamette and has interchanges on both sides of the river (OR 99E on the eastside, OR 10, 43, 99W and [indirectly] I-5 on the westside), it does make sense to flag the bridge and its approaches as a trunk instead of primary. Beyond the foot of the bridge in Southeast Portland, where the speed limit drops from 40 to 35 MPH, the argument for marking it as trunk does become tenuous.
While historical notes may be irrelevant for OSM's general purposes, when Robert Moses published his recommendations to Portland for its urban renovation in 1943 in "Portland Improvement", he advocated the use of the Ross Island Bridge as part of the freeway loop around downtown (the construction of the Marquam Bridge mitigated this need).
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Comment from Baloo Uriza
First part makes a compelling case for a trunk between 99W and 99E, with the cutoff being, either Milwaukie or 21st.
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Comment from Baloo Uriza
Well, if we're going to have US 26 east of Naito and west of East 2x as trunk, might as well make the links match.
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Comment from Grant Humphries
What's your thought process in switching way 160254307 from 'motorway_link' to 'motorway'?
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Comment from Bickendan
This ramp is defined by ODOT as the I-84/US 30 mainline (http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/TD/TDATA/rics/docs/NumRouteMap_enl.pdf), and it's noted in the Thomas Guide maps as such.
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Comment from Baloo Uriza
We use a functional classification, not necessarily what DOT calls it, though. I think most people would call this a ramp.
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Comment from Baloo Uriza
OpenStreetMap uses a functional classification, which doesn't always jibe with what the DOT thinks. I wouldn't assume the connectors that terminate the west end of the Banfield Freeway to be the mainline of anything whatsoever, Banfield ends there; the mainline would be the Eastbank Freeway at this location.
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Comment from Bickendan
It's also striving for a consistency with how the Thomas Guide depicted the interchanges, which marked the US 30 mainlines through the interchanges with I-405, I-5/405 and I-5/I-84 as mainline freeway because the US 30 shield wouldn't appear on each consecutive segment as it transferred freeways. I use Thomas Bros Mapping as the example as it was the offline standard along the west coast until Rand McNally finally shut down the Thomas Guide/Street Guide division.
Secondary argument: Previously, on the MapQuest layer, the terminating freeways (US 30 at I-405, I-405 at I-5, I-84 at I-5) would have a gap between the end of the mainline ways and the cross-route at the regional scales, falsely implying an incomplete route. By marking these particular ramps as mainline, the interchanges were shown to connect when the MapQuest layer caught up with the edits. -
Comment from Baloo Uriza
I believe this actually gives your argument even *less* basis, mostly because that implicitly suggests intentionally attempting to duplicate Thomas Guide and MapQuest. We're not trying to map other maps, we're not trying to tag for the renderers, we're trying to map what's actually out there. Just because a route crosses a motorway_link doesn't mean that it's not mainline, just means at some point the route takes a ramp. BFD, highway routes do this commonly. The route's already covered by relations (presumably, at least last time I actually loaded the data closely at this interchange), so tagging for the ground truth would have no bearing on what the route implies: They're two totally different entities to start with.
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Comment from Grant Humphries
I can see the logic behind both cases that are being made, and I don't have a strong opinion either way. However, way: 23629712 is still tagged as motorway_link and should match whatever the consensus is arrived at for the tagging of 356882078 and 160254307. That's what originally drew my attention to this was that the former the latter segments had different classifications, but have essentially the same characteristics
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Comment from Bickendan
Thanks for that catch. Until a formal decision is made, I've set that final way to motorway to match the rest of the US 30 ways through the interchange.
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Comment from Baloo Uriza
Considering that the ramps from the Eastbank Freeway to mile 0 of the Banfield Freeway were motorway_link for at least several years before, I'm curious if there are any arguments stronger than "some copyrighted map shows it different".
- US 30 (356882073), v1
- 356882074, v1
- 356882075, v1
- 356882076, v1
- 356882077, v1
- US 30 (356882078), v1
- Marquam Bridge (356882079), v1
- 356882080, v1
- 356882081, v1
- Marquam Bridge (356882082), v1
- 356882083, v1
- Southwest Harbor Drive (356882084), v1
- US 30 (160254307), v7
- US 30 (5512453), v28
- Eastbank Freeway (239364258), v4
- 335691048, v2
- Marquam Bridge (30474374), v30
- 44762903, v19
- 118874215, v7
- Marquam Bridge (5520348), v34
Relations (15)
- US 30 (OR) (2308743), v61
- 164 Fisher's Landing Express (2146381), v28
- 177 Evergreen Express (2146515), v26
- 177 Evergreen Express (2146514), v31
- 164 Fisher's Landing Express (2146396), v30
- I 5 (OR northbound) (2326065), v33
- 134 Salmon Creek Express (2146152), v26
- 105 Interstate 5 Express (2145091), v34
- 199 Highway 99 Express (2144854), v27
- 199 Highway 99 Express (2133891), v30
- 105 Interstate 5 Express (2145090), v37
- 134 Salmon Creek Express (2146151), v28
- I 5 (OR southbound) (2326066), v29
- Bus 96: Tualatin => Portland (4052131), v7
- Bus 96: Portland => Tualatin (2913279), v6
Nodes (15)
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