Changeset: 33053301
Maproulette railway crossing challenge (and nearby object cleanup).
Closed by Baloo Uriza
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (8634 en) |
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source | notes; mapbox; bing; gpx |
Discussion
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Comment from maxerickson
I live just down the road from the stretch you marked trunk between Gladstone and Rapid River there. I agree that it looks an awful lot like trunk, and it even has a special speed limit set by the state (65 instead of 55), but it's really just horribly overbuilt and isn't functionally any different than the stretches on either end.
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Comment from Baloo Uriza
Expressways and freeways are kind of special cases in US tagging, getting Trunk and Motorway respectively.
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Comment from maxerickson
The stretch you have marked trunk is not limited access. It's not connected to much, but it isn't limited access.
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Comment from Baloo Uriza
It appears to be limited access. It's not _controlled_ access, but it is limited access.
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Comment from maxerickson
There's a stop light at the southern end and another at the divergence of M 35 and no stretch longer than about 3 miles without a crossing.
The only road that wasn't connected to it when it was built was 26th road (by Masonville). I guess the minor streets in Gladstone also aren't connected, but several connections in the span of a mile is not really limited access.
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Comment from Baloo Uriza
It appears to have been deliberately disconnected from most of the grid in gladstone to limit access, and I'm not seeing any (mapped) driveways connecting to it. Looks pretty consistent with most semi-rural expressways in the midwest after looking at the aerials and looks to be consistent with the MUTCD definition of an expressway.
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Comment from maxerickson
I always thought that expressway was for roads with grade separation at (especially major) intersections. In this case, the major intersections are stop lights.
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Comment from Baloo Uriza
That's a freeway. Expressways are pretty much anything that fills in the gap between a freeway and the surface classifications. Examples of expressways would things that would otherwise be a freeway but are only single carriageway (no center divider, but controlled access), or aren't fully controlled access (and have the occasional driveway or intersection). It's not uncommon for an expressway to later be developed into a freeway (as is gradually happening to US 75 north of Tulsa and probably sometime by the time I'm old enough to draw SSI will be a freeway), and sometimes they get downgraded to a more traditional highway (as has happened to many former expressway segments of Route 66 after its retirement in order to cut costs maintaining a mothballed route).
- Comment from maxerickson
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Comment from Baloo Uriza
That's the first I've seen any planning documents suggest a definition other than what's seen at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited-access_road#United_States, which cites http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/part1/part1a.htm as the definition for "expressway" as "a divided highway with partial control of access," and "freeway" as "a divided highway with full control of access."
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Comment from maxerickson
"partial control of access" is not exactly specific. A stop sign would pretty much meet that definition.
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Comment from Baloo Uriza
Fully controlled access generally means a complete lack of driveways and at-grade intersections, with access limited only to entry and exit ramps. Partially controlled means there may be some driveways and intersections, but they're relatively sparse, and some may be controlled access junctions (ramps).
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Comment from Baloo Uriza
Or similar situations where it's single carrageway but all the junctions are ramps.
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Comment from maxerickson
Right. In this case 100% of the intersections are at grade. The stuff at http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33053301#map=17/45.85630/-87.02232 is not really ramp like, there are stop lights, and there are railroad crossings.
There aren't a whole lot of intersections in the longer stretch, but that;s more because they built the road as a bypass through a swamp. Which is something that would happen with roads more deserving of trunk, but in this case it isn't bypassing anything, and we get back to where I started, the road is ridiculously overbuilt and doesn't actually serve a different function than the stretches on either end of it.
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Comment from Baloo Uriza
Whether or not the road is overbuilt as an expressway is immaterial to the fact that it's an expressway, though.
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Comment from maxerickson
It is not an expressway. That is is overbuilt makes it look like one in the aerial imagery.
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Comment from Baloo Uriza
It still appears to meet the definition of an expressway.
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Comment from maxerickson
Well, we are at an impasse. I think I'll change it back to primary and if you still think it is trunk after you have driven it a few times you can change it back.
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Comment from Baloo Uriza
I recommend keeping it at trunk and finding another party familiar with the difference who is in the area. Based on everything you've described, it still sounds like a trunk.
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