Changeset: 35760517
UK: landuse refinements
Closed by Polarbear
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (8986 en_GB) |
---|---|
source | local survey; Bing |
Discussion
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Comment from SomeoneElse
The source here is listed as "local survey; Bing". Does this mean you actually visited the area?
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Comment from SomeoneElse
... and another question: What was your justification for the tagging of http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/384455591 as a "village green"?
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Comment from Polarbear
Local survey+Bing means gathering local knowledge from a complexity of sources, to verify what can be seen from aerial imagery, in a spacial and temporal perspective.
Your tagging question will be going to further consideration.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
I'm not sure exactly what "gathering local knowledge from a complexity of sources, to verify what can be seen from aerial imagery, in a spacial and temporal perspective" means - did you visit Somercotes or not?
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Comment from will_p
If you give 'local survey' as a source that should absolutely imply you have looked at it on the ground. In my view anything else is highly misleading. If you are using online sources, you should cite these so other mappers can easily verify where the data has come from.
Additionally, please give more accurate changeset comments. "UK: landuse refinements" is too vague. The main purpose of your recent edits was clearly to retag amenity=youth_club as amenity=community_centre. This is a controversial change that I for one strongly disagree with. It is the sort of change that should be discussed first and certainly should not be concealed in any way.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
What, specifically, was the source of http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/384455589 ? It's inside a building so it can't have been overhead imagery.
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Comment from Polarbear
@will_p, apparently we have different definitions of the types of survey. When I do a ground, photograph or GPS based survey, I label it such. When I say local, for me it means general research from OSM-compliant sources, as above.
The purpose of my edits is to improve OSM data quality by combining knowledge from a variety of compliant sources, not just to retag something. In particular my edits consider the individual situation of a certain area, which is the opposite of a mechanical edit that would have required prior discussion. The edits include verification and node-to-polygon-expansion of existing POIs, which often were a couple of years old and have been found changing names, operators or existence, or moved to a different place.
I certainly consider now that you have a different preference for tagging particular amenities.
@SomeoneElse, as said, gathered local knowledge, in the particular case from interviewing staff, which is a valuable source of up-to-date information and also spreading the word about the project.
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Comment from trigpoint
I also agree with will_p, these edits should have been discussed and agreed on @talk-gb prior to being changed.
Also I consider the term juvenile inappropriate in this case, I do not think your undersatnding reflects modern English usage.
Using the term survey when you have not visited an area is extremely misleading.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
@Polarbear You say "from interviewing staff" above - staff of what and where? "local survey" has a clearly understood meaning within OSM - "that I went there and had a look". You seem not to have done this.
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Comment from Polarbear
@SomeoneElse - I am not aware that OSM requires to record and publish conversations with operators of POIs. As for the 'what' - the way you enquired about.
Survey is not as clearly understood as you assume and has multiple meanings, which are badly defined for OSM purposes. The wiki/Survey redirects to wiki/Key:source, where the definition of source=survey is circular. The only 'local' on that page is in 'local knowledge', and that includes 'knows this first hand or from others'. Good, so that covers my interview. There are several discussions on the talk page that indicate need for clarifications. Go ahead and propose them.
And please provide me a concise form for my definition in post 3.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
I (and I suspect most mappers) have never needed to look at the wiki to see what the word "survey" meant. The page you reference was mostly edited by Xxzme (since banned from the wiki) and is therefore (as you've said) now of limited usefulness.
OSM doesn't "require" anything, but it'd be rather nicer if you were more honest about the sources used. If you've never visited a place and are guessing based on secondary sources, it'd be nice to say so.
Ways (19)
- 384455579, v1
- Somerlea Park Junior School (384455580), v1
- 384455581, v1
- 384455582, v1
- 384455583, v1
- 384455584, v1
- 384455585, v1
- 384455586, v1
- 384455587, v1
- 384455588, v1
- 384455589, v1
- 384455590, v1
- 384455591, v1
- 384455592, v1
- 309135740, v3
- Farm Close (117439242), v5
- Saint Thomas (282428072), v2
- Somercotes Youth Club (282428497), v2
- 264688151, v2
Relations (1)
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