Changeset: 40414699
Additions in Gedling, Nottingham NG4, UK (hastings st) (carlton 'suburb' changed to 'neighbourhood' as otherwise appears ineffective)
Closed by alexkemp
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (10327 en_GB) |
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source | Survey; Local Knowledge; Bing |
Discussion
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Comment from will_p
Please could you explain in more detail why you have changed Carlton from a suburb to a neighbourhood? I don't understand your changeset comment. Deciding on the relative importance of different places is subjective, but Carlton is one of Nottingham's main suburbs, so I find it hard to see any justification for downgrading it to neighbourhood.
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Comment from alexkemp
Hi Will. On every recent Diary entry that I made the ‘Location’ said “Bakersfield NG22”, even though I clicked on a location on the map close to the Carlton suburb node (NG4). Checking the Bakersfield node I discovered it to be ‘place:neighbourhood’ with a Note saying “Perhaps place=suburb?”. Looking at the Thorneywood node it was also ‘place:neighbourhood’, whilst the St Anns node is ‘place:suburb’. Much earlier, I had been mystified that clicking in a map location that (to me) was St Anns would show on the Diary entry as “Thorneywood”. I did not know of the theoretical relative importances between different place values, I was basing my decision on the practical implications as demonstrated by the Map App used in Diary entries. Finally, prior to changing the Carlton node my most recent diary said “Bakersfield NG22” with the map-pin placed in Hastings Street. Making the node-change, and then editing & re-placing the pin in Hastings Street again (nothing more), it now says “Carlton, Arnold CP, Gedling...”. I fully understand your comment, but the change was based on practically-demonstrated importance & not theoretical importance. If you choose to change it back I shall try to live with my continual annoyance when the map-pin chooses Bakersfield instead of Carlton!
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Comment from SomeoneElse
FWIW, the issue I suspect might be the same as https://github.com/twain47/Nominatim/issues/231 . The recommendation from Lonvia (who maintains Nominatim, which is what's producing "where I am" results) was "use areas".
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Comment from will_p
My view is that the quality of the underlying data is by far the most important consideration. The data can be used for a range of purposes, so making it less accurate to work round a particular software deficiency seems the wrong way to go.
I agree that incorrect locations shown in diary entries are an irritation. Reliably determining a place name using just nearby place nodes is actually an almost impossible task. The solution is perhaps to map places as areas in addition to nodes. SK53 has already tried this for Wilford: http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5376380. I've got no idea whether Nominatim (or whatever geocoder is used in this case) supports this.
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Comment from SK53
Yes I agree with will_p & SomeoneElse: the solution is to get a fix in Nominatim not mung the data. The existing places have been pretty stable for quite a number of years. Tweaking things in this way may well break other things, such as Garmin Maps based on OSM which many people (SomeoneElse & I, for instance) use all the time.
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Comment from alexkemp
“the quality of the underlying data is by far the most important consideration” : that is irrefutable. I'm in the middle of adding houses in First Av, etc.. I'll revert the node when done with the houses. The whole thing should be up before midnight.
Does anyone know whether Bakersfield is a suburb or not? If it is, then also changing it's node would neatly fix both problems (although the software glitch needs reporting/fixing as well).
I originally thought that all city boundaries *would* be areas. I was very surprised to find nodes in the map. A quick fix of course, but not very satisfactory in the long run. As we have just found out.
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Comment from will_p
I think its borderline whether Bakersfield is a neighbourhood or suburb. I added the node originally and decided on neighbourhood, but I don't have any strong views either way.
I suppose I decided on neighbourhood, because I find it's a lesser known part of Nottingham. A lot of people haven't heard of it or don't know where it is, at least in the SW part of the city where I live. Surrounding suburbs like Carlton, Netherfield, Colwick, Sneinton and St Ann's all seem more well known.
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Comment from alexkemp
Just done another uplift of houses + have also changed both carlton + bakersfield nodes to ‘suburb’.
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Comment from alexkemp
After many talks with locals in Carlton ever since this conversation it is certain that the current location for Carlton is wrong. The current consensus seems to be the crossroads of Carlton Hill / Cavendish Road / Burton Road / Station Road. However, I will NOT touch anything until I've found an area for Carlton.
In 'Where Am I?' news, the current App appears to ignore Suburb nodes.
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- 428451995, v1
- Carlton Hill (33339347), v21
Relations (1)
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