Changeset: 45706684
Qualified road type as ice-road. Aligned some of route with Bing aerial imagery.
Closed by Greg_Rose
Tags
created_by | iD 2.0.2 |
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host | https://www.openstreetmap.org/id |
imagery_used | OpenStreetMap (Standard);Bing aerial imagery |
locale | en-US |
Discussion
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Comment from keithonearth
Thanks for answering my note (http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/835213), your knowledge on the Mackenzie river crossing, and the ice_road tag, I didn't know about that one.
I did do a minor edit to following yours, as you had applied the ice_road tag to a large length of road, that was both on the river and on the land.
If you want to apply a tag to a section of a road, you first need to cut the way. In iD this is done by clicking on the node where you want to cut it (make a new node at this location if necessary), and then clicking on the scissors icon.
I've done this for the road in question, and removed the ice_road tag from the inappropriate section. But I thought you might be interested in the process.
If I'm not being clear please let me know, and feel free to ask any questions if you have them, I'll do my best to answer.
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Comment from Greg_Rose
Hey Keith - No worries, you were completely clear, and I understand completely. I actually left the ice-road designation there on purpose, as those roads are impassible once snowmelt happens: they turn into pure mud. Even though most of the road isn't on lake or river ice, the roadbed depends on compacted snow to remain driveable.
Northerners refer to the entire seasonal road as an "ice road" - but I suppose we can mark the parts on land as "seasonal" instead.
Here's the easiest way to determine if a road is an ice-road (besides research and in-person observation). Satellite imagery is almost always from the thaw months - less cloud cover - so if the roadway appears to be extensively green and grown over, it's an ice-road. If the roadway appears to be cleared of vegetation for most of its length, it's a yearly road. Most roads above the 60th parallel are actually ice-roads.
All in all though, not a big deal. No need to change it back. -
Comment from Greg_Rose
Another dead giveaway: Staging areas next to rivers on the lower/down side (side of the river that goods are coming in from). On the south bank of the McKenzie where that ice-road comes ashore, you can see in the satellite imagery a couple of cleared out staging areas. When Fall comes, there eventually is enough snowpack to traverse the ice-road on land, but not enough ice on the bigger rivers to support a semi and its load. So goods are brought in and dropped on the shore, and then brought across the river when the ice is sufficiently thick. Sometimes the goods will sit there for a few days, sometimes weeks if the weather doesn't cooperate.
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Comment from Greg_Rose
Well.... Just saw a source that argued that when they go over land, locals call them "snow-roads". So... whatever.
"Seasonal" it is. -
Comment from keithonearth
I think seasonal is the best choice too. Especially after looking at the OSM wiki entry on ice_roads (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ice_road).
Keep in mind that OSM tags may have different meaning that in common usage. So whether or not locals call the roads that are only passible when the mud is frozen "ice roads" isn't relevant, it's just a question of how the tag is used on OSM. (The OSM wiki is usually useful in this regard, but may lack information, or even not reflect actual usage accurately).
In any case we seem to be in agreement. Thanks for your work on Northern Canada, it's good to see someone editing in this area.
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