Changeset: 46508220
add adress for Modena
Closed by poschon
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (11223 de) |
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source | Bing und eigene Sichtung |
Discussion
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Comment from dieterdreist
This should be reverted ASAP. Undiscussed import. Wrong source in changeset comment. See also https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/2017-March/057524.html
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Comment from poschon
I seems to be, I was to fast. Please give me the feedback over PN. What did I do wrong?
Poschon -
Comment from poschon
For the start:
The basis for the import was http://dati.emilia-romagna.it/dataset/numerazione-civica-del-territorio-comunale--50f328b0/resource/fa3d040e-d4ea-4cdd-85c7-a83294fbeab0
The licenc for all imported adresses is Creative Commons - CC0 1.0
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Comment from poschon
Check the datas:
I compared all the adresses between present in the openstreet and in the SET. After the import I checked all the adresses over http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/ and corrected all doubel house numbers -
Comment from poschon
But now I see some of my adaptations of double house numbers are not present on official release. Positive think is: The server has all the corrections
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Comment from poschon
I prepared all the import to correct it. Every one can filter all house numbers for "Information = info". I have also the imported file on my computer and could send it to every one.
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Comment from dieterdreist
Hello Poschon, thank you for replying. The most important critique from the mailing list is that you didn't follow the import guidelines and didn't contact the local community, otherwise you would have learnt that there was already an established structure and guidelines for importing this data: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Emilia_Romagna_import_numeri_civici_2016
The second point is the absence of any kind of conflation, leading to many duplicates -
Comment from dieterdreist
also you should use a dedicated account for imports, especially if you are uploading a lot of stuff like you did.
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Comment from poschon
Hallo Martin,
I see.
I will the same: A great map for the world.
Are you in the community "Emilia Romagna"?
At the moment all my try to change something on the map is not visible. It seems that my account works partially.
About the doubles address:
At the moment over osmose you will see 16 visible doubles addresses. Then there are also present invisible doubles addresses 51. Import has over 60000 addresses. You see the amount of doubles is not so big. This is a work for 30 minutes.Before I decline my import:
I would like understand better, what the community will do. Could you translate me the planed workflow in English? And I need my account as one week before.Sorry that I borrow you
Poschon -
Comment from dieterdreist
Hello Poschon, there is still some discussion on the italian ML as you might have seen. I have told them that you are wiling to solve the few duplicates and that I have the impression you have understood now that there are import guidelines that have to be respected. Although the data doesn't require legally attribution (cc0) it would still have made sense to provide it (so others can see where the data came from). There are some active mappers in the area, and they will be asked to make an assessment of the input data quality. If they come to the conclusion that the data quality is sufficient the data will likely not be reverted (but this is only my personal guess, not a community decision).
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Comment from poschon
Hallo Martin,
Grazie for this feedback.
I did not get your formulation "Although the data doesn't require legally attribution (cc0) it would still have made sense to provide it (so others can see where the data came from)."What is exactly the requirement in this case about source?
Source = http://dati.emilia-romagna.it
Or
Source = http://dati.emilia-romagna.it Modena Numerazione civica (License CC-0)
Or
I should adapt the comment? For example: Source is http://dati.emilia-romagna.it/dataset/numerazione-civica-del-territorio-comunale--50f328b0/resource/fa3d040e-d4ea-4cdd-85c7-a83294fbeab0 License CC-0
Just to inform you: At the moment I live in Modena. Before I started the import I check a random set of addresses and their position. The position is not really exact with deviation of around 5 m.
Grazie
Poschon -
Comment from poschon
I stay in Modena for more as one year. I have big interest to increase the status of OSM in Modena.
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Comment from poschon
Sorry I miss understand you last comment.
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Comment from poschon
Then I will wait for the feedback. I follow the discussion in ML, but it is quite difficult to understand. The google translate help me a little.
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Comment from poschon
I see the first feedback about the quality:
1. Some days ago I talked about invisible addresses. I mean the wrong format --> 2/A. At the moment there are 51 addresses with wrong format. There is no problem to solve it.
2. Not existing houses: I can not imagen that one responsible/person for one city like Modena is able to check every address. In my experience this will be solved step by step. How you deal with such things in other imports?
Grazie
Poschon -
Comment from dieterdreist
Hello Poschon, there have only been neutral or positive reactions regarding the import (a revert will likely not happen). You can go on with fixing the few duplicates (my preferences would be in doubt to favor the non-import version of the duplicates). Thank you,
Martin -
Comment from dieterdreist
btw: why are you sure 2/A is the wrong format? It is a common housenumber scheme in italy. If search doesn't find this, we might have to improve the search.
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Comment from poschon
Hello Martin,
Grazie for the feedback. I will follow the unwritten low in case of duplicates to delete the imported address. At the next time I will search more deeply for a community. My big mistake is: I looked just for Modena. The wiki side for Regio Emilia does not include the word Modena.
According to house number:
Before I did the import. I checked the wiki (Eng., German and Russ.) and I found the format 2A or 2a and never 2/A or 2/a. In the Italian map are existing bot formats. I would like follow the format 2A and 2a. In case of 100/1 is a different discussion. Do you have differed knowledge?
And Yes the search function is not able to find the adress with the format ”/”.You can try the following existing addresses:
Okay: Largo di Porta Bologna 48 Modena
Not Okay: Largo di Porta Bologna 48/A ModenaGrazie
Poschon -
Comment from dieterdreist
the shortcomings of the search should be reported to Nominatim (the geocoding software on osm.org). Contacting the local community about the import: best way is probably to ask on the national mailing list, they can refer to a regional mailing list (if there is). There is also an international mailing list for imports.
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Comment from Regina Phalange
Sorry for being late. I'm not much happy about this changeset, as I've seen the source in the past and I wasn't very amused about the quality. The house numbers are very often misplaced around the buildings, or even in the near buildings. If the general feeling is neutral though, I'm not going to insist on reverting the change, because I understand this numbers can help give a rough idea where things are.
I'm strongly against changing the addr:housenumber format. If you add a comma in your query, the node comes out just fine (example, http://imgur.com/a/GJI92). I'm not sure about the rest of Italy (I never cared to notice until now, sorry), but in Modena the number on the plate is written in the format 1/A, so in my opinion changing this would result in wrong data.
Thank you for your time
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Comment from dieterdreist
I think there is likely not a rule or if there is, it is not enforced, you can find different kind of 3/A, 3/a, 3a, 3A and there also are very frequent uses of the slash to make a list, e.g. 3/5/7 (for the house numbers 3 and 5 and 7) and there also are variants like 3/2 (which has to be read similar like 3/B). Anyway, I reconfirm not to change these numbers, and when written in countryspecific scheme (with the ",") they are found: http://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=Largo%20di%20Porta%20Bologna%2C%2048%2FA%20Modena#map=19/44.64464/10.93042
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Comment from poschon
ciao,
the format for the numbers is important. I agree with you. Today I did a small walk around Modena. I saw just the Format <Number><Letter> without ”/”.
Here are some pictures from plates and in upper left corner the position of this plate on the map:
https://owncloud.weberhost.de/public.php?service=files&t=bce1585ecf60536791130d18128b81c7
@Regina: Do you have other examples?
At the moment I changed nothing (related to the address) since the import.Poschon
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Comment from Regina Phalange
Ok I'm really sorry because you are totally right about the plates. However the "/" format is default when you talk about addresses, as you can see here https://www.paginegialle.it/serramenti-infissi-klimainfissi-modena , http://www.immobiliaredonatello.it/it/contatti.html and (not Modena though) http://www.sushiko.it/it/ristoranti/sushiko-rubiera-re-rubiera . Right now I can't find any other examples because no other activity comes to my mind, but I'm pretty sure the format is always the same. Maybe it's Italian mail service related?
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Comment from SomeoneElse
Hello poschon,
What is the point of the "information=add" data that you have added to every node here? Were these tags discussed anywhere before the import took place?
Best Regards,
See also the very negative comments about this import at https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/2017-March/thread.html#57524
Andy
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