Changeset: 48790591
more landuse=farm retagged
Closed by kreuzschnabel
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (12039 de) |
---|---|
source | Bing |
Discussion
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Comment from DaveF
Hi
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4557760230/history#map=18/50.64972/-2.04102Could you explain why you made this amendment? It looks like a farmyard to me.
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Comment from DaveF
Note the description for place=farm: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Farm&oldid=1459338
This is the rare (non existent in the UK?) where a place such as a village or hamlet of residential houses unrelated to the farm has taken the name of the farm. Ithink you should have tagged it (& others?) as landuse=farmyard
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Comment from kreuzschnabel
Thanks for asking! landuse=farmyard, like other landuse=*, would be technically wrong on a single node since they are defined for outlines only (i.e. closed ways). So in ost cases coming across single landuse=farm nodes, I decided the first mapper’s intention was to get at least the farm’s name on the map rendering, if not its lateral extent, so I mostly changed these nodes on visible farmyards into place=farm (which was what has been meant IMHO). Since I have no means to decide whether it’s still a real farmyard or has been turned into a residential hamlet, I have to rely on the previous mappers’ work here. On Bing imagery, this very incarnation looks like a working farm to me (might be outdated though, no capture date given).
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Comment from DaveF
Hi
"to get at least the farm’s name on the map rendering," < This is tagging for the render & is to be discouraged. Mapnik carto is just one of many renderings.By changing from landuse=farm to place=farm you made the OSM database more inaccurate - you made a tag which represents a farm to something which isn't a farm.
If you "have no means to decide whether it’s still a real farmyard" then you should not have made the amendments en bloc.
Is there a wiki page explaining the 'NoFarm' clear up?
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Comment from kreuzschnabel
I cannot accept the "mapping for the renderer" killer argument here as it does not apply here. "Mapping for the renderer" is entering wrong data in order to achieve a specified picture on the map I changed one invalid tagging meaning to represent a farmyard into a valid tagging doing the same. If, in this case, the information "this is a farm named Lower Bushey Farm" has been in the database ever since, and if it is incorrect now, it has been incorrect before as well, since I did not alter any information, I just changed it into a valid scheme. I cannot see anything "more inaccurate" in this.
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Comment from kreuzschnabel
(Sorry for the somewhat confuse wording, that’s the fault of editing a text too much after typing it.)
Again: Mapping for the renderer means entering wrong data just to get a desired rendering. For instance, mapping a concrete-paved area on a pasture as "landuse=residential" only to have it in gray colour. My saying is, "While we do not map for the renderer, we neither do mapping against it". Entering farms as nodes to get their names rendered on the correct positions is certainly useful, not just for the rendering but also for the search function in navigation aids, or for Nominatim to "know" the place. This is what a geo database is there for, so why should it be wrong? That’s why I chose the phrase of killer argument here, sorry if it sounded rude. -
Comment from DaveF
Hi
You're not sounding rude.You've changed multiple items from tags that represent farms to tags that do not represent farms, purely to, by your own admission, "get the farm’s name on the map rendering". This absolutely is 'tagging for the renderer'.
Although landuse=farm isn't fully accurate, it's better than place=farm which is not a farm.
To remove landuse=farm from the database (which is the intention of these edits) it would be more accurate to replace nodes with this tag to landuse=farmyard, which is what the vast majority of these are, even though they're nodes not polygons. -
Comment from kreuzschnabel
1. It was not _my_ intention to get the name on the map rendering, it just was my _assumption_ on the original mapper’s intention, as I clearly said. Why else should one place a single node and tag it landuse=farm + name=*? And again: Having the name + position of a farm is not just the renderer’s benefit but any user’s.
2. A single node tagged landuse=farm does not represent anything at all because it is invalid code. It says, "here is a farming area of exactly zero square inches", in other words: none at all.
3. I always assumed place=farm to be a place which is a farm, as much as I assume a highway=motorway to be a highway that is a motorway. Would you prefer place=isolated_dwelling instead? I could easily reselect the nodes changed by me recently and retag them (however, this would be a mechanical edit and require the usual procedures).
- 127246213, v2
- 127246214, v2
- 127246216, v2
- 127246218, v2
- 129465911, v2
- 129553107, v2
- 129554297, v2
- 129554298, v2
- 129554302, v2
- 129554306, v2
- 129554307, v2
- 129554310, v2
- Snow Capel Farm (144003391), v2
- Clandon Farm (148524242), v4
- Pen Barn Farm (148524252), v3
- New Farm (152813061), v2
- Hill Farm (156339140), v2
- 156644296, v3
- 156644299, v7
- Cardsmill Farm (156738748), v2
- Middle Pig Farm (838079254), v2
- Callamore Farm (857062438), v2
- Colloe Grove Farm (857062564), v2
- Hampen Farm (885953841), v2
- Church Farm (895549096), v2
- Manor Farm (895549097), v2
- Well Farm (895592641), v2
- Tyning Villa Farm (895592647), v2
- Hunt Court Farm (897210524), v2
- Little Syringa Farm (897210536), v2
- Cabin Farm (943415871), v2
- Northfield Farm (943415881), v2
- Upper Hilcot Farm (943491993), v3
- Shornhill Farm (943491994), v2
- Pegglesworth Home Farm (943491996), v2
- Saint Mary's Farm (963087027), v2
- Alms House Farm (963647008), v2
- Pear Tree Farm (963647011), v2
- Maisemore Court (980587643), v2
- Woodfold Farm (982680287), v2
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