Changeset: 50470413
CO
Closed by Raymo853
Tags
created_by | iD 2.3.1 |
---|---|
host | https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit |
imagery_used | USGS Topographic Maps;OpenStreetMap GPS traces;Local GPX |
locale | en-US |
Discussion
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Comment from tekim
Hi Raymond, I noticed that you are editing the names of peaks to include the elevation in feet. You probably were not aware of this, but the name tag is for the name only[1]. Elevation should be placed in the ele tag[2]
Mike[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Name_is_the_name_only
[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ele -
Comment from Raymo853
Hello. I would argue the elevation is part of the name.
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Comment from Raymo853
It is often the most useful information for peaks.
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Comment from tekim
Raymond, Yes, the elevation information is very useful for peaks, but it belongs in the ele tag, and in most cases, is already included in that tag. We should not tag for the renderer. If you would like the elevation in feet to show up on the standard rendering, perhaps submit a pull request for the standard style, although I am not sure the maintainers are willing or able to have country specific rendering and the rest of the world pretty much uses meters. Mike
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Comment from tekim
I posted this question to the tagging mailing list to get input from the wider community. I would have cc'ed you, but I don't think I have your email address. You might want to subscribe to that list if you are not already in order to participate in the discussion and explain your point of view.
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Comment from n76
Putting the elevation in the name field is flat out wrong. Elevation should be in the ele=* field and the renderer can, if the developer of the renderer desires, be shown along with the name.
Consider that this data and the maps made from it could be used by a person desiring metric elevations. You can easily convert the well defined values in the ele=* field when rendering (I convert from meters to feet for my maps). But converting a value in a field that expected to be text only like the name field is not possible without lots of artificial intelligence.
Basically you are breaking the map for many, many users.
FWIW I render the elevation along with the names of peaks on the paper topo maps I create for my own use. In fact, I render the elevation tag even if there is no name on the peak. Basically the same as the old USGS topos did it. And even though the peak elevations in the areas I've created maps for are in meters, my maps are in feet.
There are some maps that already use the elevation field like http://www.hikebikemap.org That has an international orientation so the elevations are in meters but it does show others care and need to have the elevation in the ele=* tag and not polluting the name text.
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Comment from Raymo853
Is it possible to have the elevation in the proper tag but have tags for both SI and English units?
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Comment from mvexel
Hi Raymo853 -- tekim is correct, you want to use the `ele` tag to note the elevation. The information in OpenStreetMap needs to be a little bit structured for everyone to be able to make sense of it. That is why we separate the names of things out in one tag, and have other useful information go into designated other tags (like `ele` for elevation, `opening_hours` for opening hours, etcetera. Anyone who would want to make a map with the elevations of peaks prominently displayed can still do this. They would just need to look for an available `ele` value. There are already over 5 million objects in OSM with `ele` attribute, so if we all adhere to this standard, we keep the data consistent. Thanks and happy mapping!
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Comment from Raymo853
I was adding the elevation in meters to the tag, but also adding it in feet to the name. I do not understand how having more info in the name field can cause such chaos.
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Comment from mvexel
It's not chaos :) It's just that people expect a name when they query the name tag, just as they would expect to see elevation (in meters) when they query the ele tag. Anyone who wants to create a map with elevation in feet prominently displayed can query the ele tag and do the conversion. Having elevation in both meters and feet in the data is redundant.
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Comment from Raymo853
Thanks for the clarification mvex*. It just seemed other were making remarks without understanding I was putting meters into the elevation tag and thereby was causing all sorts of terror and heartache for all users.
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Comment from n76
"I do not understand how having more info in the name field can cause such chaos." -- Because it is not expected and hard for a renderer to remove. If I create a map of an area you tagged this way the elevation will be shown twice (with different formatting). In addition, lots of people do searches with exact matches and they won't be expecting to have to remember the foot based elevation to have the search complete.
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Comment from Mateusz Konieczny
name is for name only.
Adding height in feet is tagging for renderer - see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_for_the_renderer
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Comment from Raymo853
Hello Mateusz. Thanks for the reference. I have already changed my practice and have been un-dong the feet elevations when I find them.
Ways (9)
- Pack Trail (509326119), v1
- 509326120, v1
- 509326121, v1
- 509326122, v1
- 509326123, v1
- 509326124, v1
- 509326125, v1
- Little Beaver Creek (106643568), v4
- Little Beaver Creek (106643911), v5
- 4985735161, v1
- 4985735162, v1
- 4985735163, v1
- 4985735164, v1
- 4985735165, v1
- 4985735166, v1
- 4985735167, v1
- 4985735168, v1
- Bedsprings (4985735169), v1
- 9126 ft (4985735170), v1
- Bennett 9059 (4985735171), v1
- 9740 ft (4985735172), v1
- 10875 ft (4985735173), v1
- 11217 ft (4985735174), v1
- 4985735175, v1
- 4985735176, v1
- 4985735177, v1
- 4985735178, v1
- 4985735179, v1
- 4985735180, v1
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