Changeset: 52427936
adding a matching wikidata for wikipdia
Closed by nyuriks
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (12712 en) |
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source | wikidata |
Discussion
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Comment from SomeoneElse
nyuriks,
You appear to be continuing with this mechanical edit despite being told to stop, and while discussion on the list and at e.g. https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=59910 is still going on. You appear determined to force your views on the OSM community despite the fact that discussion is clearly still ongoing. -
Comment from nyuriks
SomeoneElse, this is becoming a harassing behavior. Where do you see a mechanical edit? This was a single node manual edit.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
It was submitted 10 seconds after the previous changeset and 20 seconds before the next. That's unfortunately a common behaviour where people want to be seen to be doing "single" edits but in fact are just mechanically changing object after object without doing any sort of checks on what they're changing between uploads.
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Comment from nyuriks
Yes. In a group of 10 nodes. Each of which were checked by hand. I know the rules, and despite your accusations, I haven't broken any of them. I specifically studied the mechanical edits policy.
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Comment from nyuriks
The group was checked, individually. Afterwards, they were uploaded one by one because they appeared in different places of the world.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
What about previous changes, such as https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/52369774 ? Was that a mechanical edit?
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Comment from nyuriks
Yes they were. They were clearly marked as mechanical (with the word auto). And they followed the rules.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
> And they followed the rules.
Are you sure? What you're supposed to do is laid out in some detail at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct , including a "Document_and_discuss_your_plans" section. Can you explain how you followed that? As far as I can see almost none of it was, except for an initial discussion on talk@ (which met with a mixed reception).
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Comment from nyuriks
Which portion of it did I fail to address? Global note, discussion, proceeded. Not a mixed response - every concern was answered on the email channel (except for one email that was not raising any reasonable objection as I later noted), and did not receive any further comment until restarted. If you feel this is not so, feel free to start a dispute.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
> Which portion of it did I fail to address?
Firstly and most importantly, you were mechanically adding while the discussion was going on, if not before.
In additon to that:
o You did not place your documentation on the wiki.
o You did not " work with [dissenters] to understand their reasons for objecting".
o You did not document your proposed edit at an English-language wiki page named "Automated edits/username".
o You did not add it to Category:Automated edits log.
You therefore did not include:
o Who is making the change (preferably your real name and how to contact you, ideally e-mail address)
o A detailed description of the algorithm you will use to decide which objects are changed how
o Information about any consultation that you have conducted, with links to mailing list/forum posts or Wiki discussion pages
o When the change was made, or how frequently it is going to be repeated
o Information on how to "opt out"
Similarly, from the next section, you did not:
o Execute only a small number of edits with a new bot before requesting and waiting for feedback.
o Plan your changesets sensibly.
o Provide a means for mappers to "opt out" of your changes,
I'm guessing that you also didn't:
o For major changes (in the six-digit range or more), check with the admins -
Comment from SomeoneElse
Sorry to have to spell this out in quite such detail above but your comment "Which portion of it did I fail to address" suggests one of two things:
1) A complete failure to understand what other mappers, and OSM documentation, are saying to you.
2) You're just being mendacious. Perhaps you think that what other people in the community say "somehow doesn't apply to you"?
Consistently (e.g. in changeset discussions) you've said things like "I won't do X any more" and have then gone on to do X again and again. One of these must be true. Which is it? -
Comment from nyuriks
* The discussion was quiet for 4 days
* Every raised point was addressed, as was mentioned in the talk. Several people meticulously answered all of the objections. One objection was un-answerable because it basically claimed something without backing it up. Regardless, I worked very attentively with every dessenter.
* Wiki has many pages about this effort
* Agree about not having Automated edits/username - I don't recall this was brought up before, but a valid point, will add.
* My account is tied to my main email, and I usually reply within the same day to every message, either on changeset or direct.
* There was no bot - all was done with josm, using well tested built-in tools
* Exactly the same change was being done as before, with the method described repeatably on various forms of media
* The change was not in 6 digitsSo from your list, it appears that while I followed the spirit and the scope of the mechanical edit policy (discussed on a global channel until it went quiet, IRC, created a huge system to fix uncovered issues, was always available, etc), I did not create a wiki page Automated edits/username. Instead of asking me to create it (which I would have gladly done right away), I was constantly harased by you with all sorts of "this edit is too quickly following another edit" or "don't do mech edits" type of complaints, mostly for manual editing. This is not constructive. It felt as a targeted, biased harassment rather than simply asking for additional steps that needed to be performed.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
Thank you for finally admitting that yes, you did perform a mechanical edit and that no, you did not follow the documented procedure.
Which were the 4 days on which you claim there was no discussion on "talk" about this? -
Comment from nyuriks
Serious? The automated edits were marked with the word "auto", and I kept saying I was doing them mechanically after the discussion! You correctly pointed out that I forgot to add the auto/username wiki page, which has already been rectified. This is something you could have told me a very long time ago, instead of wasting many hours and aggravation. This sounds very much like the worst possible government bureaucracy imaginable.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
> This is something you could have told me a very long time ago, instead of wasting many hours and aggravation.
Lest we forget, a member of the OSM community told you about https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct 12 days ago on https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/51919550 , and 10 _months_ ago on https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/43775555 the requirement to discuss was raised.
You can't claim that you didn't know.
Back to the previous question - which were the 4 days on which you claim there was no discussion on "talk" about this? -
Comment from nyuriks
Andy, that article is very long, and only mentions "Automated edits/username" once in middle. Noone has mentioned that specific piece of information until you did yesterday, and I immediately complied. Until I saw it, I was fully convinced I followed all other rules outlined there. It would have helped everyone to simply say "in addition to everything else you are doing, please add a page XXX to describe it, thanks". About 4 days : https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-September/078805.html was the last email tangentially related to the proposal.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
> Andy, that article is very long
I'n sorry, but the text on that page is 10457 bytes in total. Reader mode in FF estimates "10-12 minutes". If you can't be bothered to read that in full then words fail me.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
Also re "about 4 days" - https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-September/078805.html was at "Sat Sep 23 03:15:13 UTC 2017" and the first "auto" changeset seems to be
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/52333709 , created at "2017-09-24T17:03:28Z". This is a gap of 38 hours, between Saturday morning and Sunday afternoon UTC. This is some way short of 4 days.
I am stunned that you continue to make statements like this that are so easily proved to be false.
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