Changeset: 62451170
A large part of this stadium has been renovated. The new stands are added.
Closed by stadiaarcadia
Tags
changesets_count | 2505 |
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created_by | iD 2.11.1 |
host | https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit |
imagery_used | Bing aerial imagery |
locale | nl |
Discussion
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Comment from pangoSE
Hi.
I'm very supicious of this edit as you removed a lot of nodes.
Please explain what you removed.
Have you read https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Keep_the_history ? -
Comment from stadiaarcadia
Hi, I didn’t remove objects, I changed the shape of the stadium because it has new stands. Here you can see it has new stands: http://www.hif.se/news/tidsschema-invigningen-av-olympia/
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Comment from pangoSE
I reverted your changes with JOSM and took a look.
Have you read this: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice especially the section on GOOD COMMENTS and HISTORY?In this edit you deleted many of the old nodes instead of moving them around.
I expect an explanation and that you try to keep nodes on further edits going forward or I will revert and ask to have you blocked (again).
I'm not happy about this.
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Comment from pangoSE
"I didn’t remove objects"
What?
Look at the list below this comment. It has a list of objects with a strike-through denoting a deleted element in the database. THERE ARE 30 of them in this changeset. Looking at JOSM and alternating between your and the former changeset I see a lot of nodes missing.
I'm gussing you deleted an old no longer accurate building and redrew from Bing, am I correct? -
Comment from pangoSE
Looking at your history of interactions with other mappers I feel really sorry to tell you that your edits are creating a lot of trouble for a lot of other mappers to clean up in your wake.
You have been given many chances to learn how to CAREFULLY step-by-step learn-by-doing clarifying each change as you go and waiting if somebody wants to teach you how to avoid destroying the data.Can you help me understand this? Do you perhaps have some kind of condition (disability) that we should know of that hinders you from learning how to edit?
Please respond in private with a PM if you don't feel comfortable to answer here. Maybe we can work something out so you are increasing more than decreasing the quality of the data.
See http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=8570285&commented
Kind regards
Egil -
Comment from stadiaarcadia
No, I didn’t delete any stand, I’ve changed the shape. I did remove nodes (those white dots, is that not allowed? They don’t contain information right? How can the new stand be added the right way?) because the stadium shape doesn’t require that many nodes anymore. After the recent renovation works, the long side changed in shape. I’m done with all the stadium edits, I’m only checking older edits of me for possible errors. My final edits were just missing houses added.
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
At this stadium I just wanted to add the new stand, which was not yet added, to make OSM more up-to-date. I’ve read a lot on those Wiki’s, but I don’t understand everything they try to explain. I’m sorry for that. English is not my first language, I don’t understand everything English.
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
Maybe you can add the new stands the right way? Three of the four stands have been replaced with new stands.
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Comment from freebeer
after suggesting it several days ago, yesterday i took a look through https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=12 to see if there were any topics you might have opened or participated in, to seek help in your native tongue from a vibrant and active community whom I am familiar with.
Minutes ago, still nothing.
.
You are not allowed to refer to www.hif.se as a source for OSM. And your freehand tracing from that forbidden source is very inaccurate; further, I do not see any separated building parts as in the OSM data now.
Your traces appear to be about six metres away from their correct position where I checked. -
Comment from stadiaarcadia
I didn't use the HIF link as a source, I just showed a picture where people can see that three new stands have been built. Only the stand on the right hasn't been completely rebuilt. You're right about the forum, I've tried to post in the forum but it was not possible for some reason.
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Comment from pangoSE
Hm.
I would suggest you find someone to mentor you directly IRL or via a shared screen and then only upload when this mentor tell you to.You can then propose edits and discuss directly with the mentor if these edits are ok from a legal and quality perspective.
This would mean you can have OSM as a mentored learning playground without uploading unmentored garbage edits for others to clean up.
SO PLEASE, NO MORE EDITS UNTIL YOU FOUND A MENTOR.
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
That’s okay. Do you know anybody who wants to be my mentor? By the way, can you please tell me if my multipolygon I’ve tried (my last two edits) are without errors?
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
Freebeer, do you want to be my “mentor”? You gave me a lot of very good hints and information. Is it okay to still do safe edits (adding missing houses)? I’ve added thousands of missing houses and never received a complaint about those. Those are easy edits. Editing stadiums often is much more complicated.
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
Because I'm unable to edit now, maybe someone else can fix these errors I've found:
1 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1521262
2 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522248
3 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522292
4 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522264
5 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522313
6 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522311
7 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522310
8 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522308
9 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522306
10 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522304
11 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522303
12 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522302
13 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522301
14 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522300
15 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522299
16 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522297
17 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522296
18 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522294
19 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522291
20 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522290
21 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522289
22 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522288
23 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522287
24 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522286
25 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522285
26 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522283
27 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522282
28 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522279
29 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522278
30 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522276
31 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522273
32 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522272
33 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522271
34 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522269
35 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522268
36 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522267
37 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522265
38 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522263
39 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522262
40 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522260
41 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522257
42 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522256
43 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522254
44 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522253
45 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522252
46 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522251
47 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522250
48 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522249
49 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522247
50 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522246
51 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522245
52 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522244
53 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522243
54 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522242
55 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522240
56 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522239
57 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522237
58 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522236
59 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522235
60 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522234
61 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522233
62 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522232
63 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522231
64 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522230
65 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522229
66 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522228
67 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522226
68 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522225
69 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522224
70 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522222
71 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522220
72 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522219
73 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522218
74 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522215 -
Comment from stadiaarcadia
Just an idea... maybe I can post a temporary note if I find something that probably needs an edit. Freebeer (if he wants to) can check if he agrees with the note, and tell me if I’m able to edit it myself or not. If it’s a difficult edit, I can work together on it with someone else, or let somebody else fix it.
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
Freebeer, do you think I can fix those 74 errors I’ve posted here myself? Almost all of those errors contain a sports field which doesn’t show up. In my last 2 edits, you can see I’ve added the multipolygon the right way, so I think I can fix that. One of those 74 errors contains a stadium which should be removed (Hughes Stadium in Colorado). I don’t know how to fix that without possible errors, I think it’s better if someone else fixes that.
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
This is also a non-field-not-showing-up error: https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522292#map=19/37.51570/127.12961&layers=N Can I fix that the way I’ve explained it over here?
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
Various errors have been fixed. Here is a list with all the errors still remaining, these links all have one object not showing up:
1 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522313
2 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522310
3 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522308
4 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522306
5 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522306
6 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522304
7 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522303
8 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522302
9 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522301
10 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522300
11 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522299
12 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522297
13 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522296
14 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522294
15 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522291
16 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522290
17 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522289
18 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522288
19 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522287
20 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522286
21 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522283
22 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522282
23 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522279
24 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522278
25 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522276
26 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522273
27 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522272
28 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522271
29 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522269
30 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522268
31 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522267
32 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522265
33 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522263
34 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522262
35 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522260
36 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522257
37 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522256
38 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522254
39 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522253
40 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522252
41 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522251
42 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522250
43 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522249
44 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522247
45 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522246
46 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522245
47 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522244
48 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522243
49 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522242
50 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522240
51 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522239
52 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522237
53 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522236
54 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522235
55 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522234
56 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522233
57 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522232
58 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522231
59 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522230
60 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522229
61 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522228
62 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522226
63 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522225
64 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522224
65 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522222
66 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522220
67 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522219
68 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522218
69 https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522215If anyone wants to fix (some of) these errors, I would appreciate it a lot.
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
(By the way, I found a mentor. Freebeer, if you also want to be a mentor, please let me know).
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
Those errors I've listed mostly contain sports fields not showing up. I've found some people who want to help with fixing these errors. If anyone else wants to help it would be appreciated a lot.
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Comment from pangoSE
Hi :)
Thanks a lot for changing your strategy to asking first.
The key to succes with this is JOSM. Install it now, then read on.
Looking at your posts I see a lot of notes. I looked at a few.
Let me take an example:
1) Stadium in Silkeborg
https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1522313#map=19/56.18424/9.57528&layers=N
You correctly noticed that the pitch was missing from the stadium and added it with this edit 7 days ago: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/623566222/history
BUT
To as you correctly state this data does not show on OSM Carto (default map on osm.org) BECAUSE it renders in layers. In this case it renders the pitch FIRST and the stadium on top SECOND.
Do you understand?
To see this you need to click the arrow with a questionmark and click the map.
So how to fix this?Method no.1)
Force the pitch on top with layer=1. This might work
or
Method no. 2)
Select both elements in JOSM and choose edit->create multipolygon. The stadium is outer and the pitch is inner.Method no. 3)
Add way where the stands end towards the pitch (this is not a rectangular way as it follows the round corners of the lower part of the stands. Select this way (role=inner and the outer stadium and pitch (inner) and ->create multipolygon. -
Comment from stadiaarcadia
Thank you for your very good information PangoSE :) I’ll start with JOSM soon.
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Comment from pangoSE
Congratulations on finding a mentor! :D
I see you have not edited for two days, thanks for listening to my request.
Good luck with mentored editing going forward. You will probably soon be able to teach me how to edit better when you have got the hang of it. ;-) -
Comment from pangoSE
Regarding your long list of notes I would like to say that your are in NO way required to follow up on you own notes. I leave a lot of notes around and if nobody else sees to them I eventually come around (sometimes years after) to fix it myself when I feel confident about how to do the edit correctly.
I see the notes as a gift to the community. Not an obligation that must be met by anyone. -
Comment from stadiaarcadia
Yes, I agree with your request, I think it's a good idea. Can you please take a look at my last two edits from a few days back:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/62510515
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/62510357
All of the 69 errors I've posted seem to have an identical problem with the field not showing up, which can be solved the way I've added the multipolygon in these two edits. Those two edits were fine, I asked other people to check these two for possible errors but they said both are okay. Do you think I can fix those other errors exactly the same way? Or should I wait for a mentor to have time for me? I guess if I fix them the same way as my last two edits, nothing can go wrong (if you disagree, please let me know).
I think adding missing houses (like I did over here: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/62479759 ) also is pretty "safe" to do without a mentor. Those are easy edits, just drawing lines according to Bing (or with JOSM). I've added thousands of missing houses and never received a complaint about those edits, so I guess they're fine. If you disagree, just let me know :)
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
Hm, maybe it’s better to do these errors with a mentor indeed. It might be more complicated than I think.
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Comment from pangoSE
Adding simple stuff like buildings specifying the source is fine by me.
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Comment from pangoSE
From now on I recommend you to begin writing blog articles (se your profile on osm.org and click "my diary") or write to a talk-mailinglist when you have questions and lists like these.
I'm going to revert the change to this stadium now because of all the deleted nodes. -
Comment from stadiaarcadia
If you revert the edit, please add the three new stands, because the stadium has been completely rebuilt except for one stand. How it looked before my edit is absolutely NOT how the stadium looks now.
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Comment from pangoSE
I decided agains reverting because of the history of the nodes was only v2 and your edits was an improvement after all. I changed it further and the area around it.
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
Thanks PangoSE :)
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
After I‘ve watched YouTube tutorials and read several Wiki pages, I did hundreds of edits and only one of those contained an error. This error was about the Duke stadium, it has already been reverted. I did add the athletics track of the stadium, which was still on Bing, but I should have checked if the stadium had been renovated recently because the athletics track has been removed (and some other renovation works took place at that stadium). I think my most recent edits are better than the old ones, but I should still be careful with my edits because I might not understand every detail 100% perfectly. The last days, I’ve fixed a lot of my older edits which contained
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
errors. I’ve added alt_names for example instead of double stadium names like “Kilmac Stadium (Dens Park)”. I’ve also added multipolygons the right way, I’ve learned that the stadium tag should cover the entire stadium area and that the building tag shouldn’t overlap with the field. I think I should give a more detailed explanation when I edit something, like recently renovated stadiums with stands which are not yet visible on the maps. I think adding a temporary note before I start editing might be a good idea. This way, people can give hints or discuss my proposed edit before I start anything.
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
I will fix those 69 errors soon with JOSM (“mentor” wants to help with this). They’re all about sports fields not showing up, I’ve fixed those before and they look fine now.
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
The “force the pitch on top” on JOSM also seems a good / easy / fast method. Thanks for the info about this above here PangoSE.
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
Sorry PangoSE but you've made serious mistakes at your edit of the stadium in Helsingborg. Please fix it. Here you can see how the stadium looks like now (no, this link can not be used as a source for OSM but it is just to show you a good picture of the stand on top, which now has the same size as the stand below. The stand on the left also has a different shape, please take a better look before you edit: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Helsingborg,+Zweden/@56.0501038,12.7062297,256m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x46522d7a50a22925:0x4019078290e7a90!8m2!3d56.0464674!4d12.6945121
Here more pictures which can't be used as a source, but where you can see the stadium before and after.
Before: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a7/48/ba/a748ba2295a117062586544b3fd019a3.jpg
After: http://www.theexpateagle.com/wp-content/uploads/olympia-panorama-900x599.jpg
After: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gPiPIwRxbKo/maxresdefault.jpg
Do you see the difference?
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
As you can see, the stadium has three completely new stands with a larger size. You've re-added the old stands, which don't excist anymore.
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
Take a look at this pink area I drew: https://image.ibb.co/mhWMzz/stadium.jpg
That's now also part of the stadium. Why did you remove it? I've visited this stadium (and hundreds of other stadiums, I'm a groundhopper), I saw its new shape.
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Comment from stadiaarcadia
Another thing: I've made this sports field visible. My mentor told me how I could fix it. I guess this edit is fine: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/62611974#map=19/35.57270/-5.34858
Ways (5)
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