Changeset: 108548780
USA - Updated deprecated roof tags with building: (such as building:roof:shape) to their counterparts without building: - where new tags already existed, I removed the old ones - fixed a handful of other minor errors that the validator picked up
Closed by Friendly_Ghost
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (18004 en) |
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source | Maxar Premium Imagery (Beta) |
Discussion
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Comment from tekim
Pretty arrogant for you to post yet another changeset with a huge geographic extent after you have been informed via changeset comments on one of your other changesets that this is not appropriate. Also, this appears to be a mechanical edit, which is also not appropriate.
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#REVIEWED_BAD #OSMCHA
Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/108548780
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Comment from Friendly_Ghost
Hello Tekim,
No one seems to have a problem with the contents of my changesets so far, only with the method, which I think is ridiculous because it's one of the few ways to get this kind of thing done.
I wouldn't call it a mechanical edit, because I reviewed all of the tag combinations before I changed them to avoid losing any information.
If you have suggestions to update deprecated and misspelled tags, I'm all ears.
Best regards
Casper
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Comment from MxxCon
Just because people don't comment on your changesets doesn't mean they completely approve of you making giant multi-continent bounding boxes. I too would appreciate if you limited your edits to smaller geographic regions so that each changeset could be evaluated to make sure there are no problems. Now reviewing almost 3200 changes in one commit is unreasonable.
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#REVIEWED_BAD #OSMCHA
Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/108548780
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Comment from Friendly_Ghost
Then how would you prefer to review my 3200 changes: in 10, 100 or 1000 changesets? How many people would bother to review 1,000 very similar tiny changesets?
There is no sweet spot that will please everyone. There are just a whole lot of outdated and erroneous tags. I just fixed a lot of them to make OSM data more consistent and understandable for data users and analysts.
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Comment from MxxCon
By state or last by general geographic regions. Best case I'd prefer it split up by major populated areas. Because your changeset is so huge, I can't even tell where most of your changes are...
And due to the nature of OSM, your bounding box also included a bunch of other countries which don't care seeing changes from USA. -
Comment from Friendly_Ghost
Nobody wants to do the same edit separately for each state, and even then people would complain about state-wide edits that are only a few hundred changes. Changes like this just need to be done.
Of course I wouldn't create tiny edits across the globe in a single changeset, but this one is large enough to warrant the large bbox.
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Comment from tekim
> Then how would you prefer to review my 3200 changes
If you don't have enough respect for our community to follow our norms and invest the time, effort, and skill (or recruit others with the necessary time and skill to help you) to do things inline with community expectations and rules, then I would prefer that you do not make this type of change at all. The fact that there are a few "color" vs "colour" tags is not a life and death situation for OpenStreetMap, and data consumers can easily translate if it is important to them.BTW, regardless of what you call it, this does fall under the Automated Edits Code of Conduct[0], which states the code covers the "use of find-and-replace functionality using a standard editor such as JOSM "
[0]https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct
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Comment from Friendly_Ghost
Who are you to dictate norms to anyone? OSM does not know the concept of authority. We collaborate. I fixed your tags, you're welcome.
"data consumers can easily translate" - or we can just produce good data in the first place, which is what I'm doing.
Of course a few "color" vs "colour" tags is not a life and death situation. Neither is the fact that I'm taking my time to fix them. I prioritise good data over my bbox size and I suggest that you do the same.
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Comment from Friendly_Ghost
Furthermore, you didn't answer my question: how would you prefer to review my 3,200 changes?
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Comment from tekim
I would prefer to just review those in my metro area or county.
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Comment from Friendly_Ghost
In that case you can easily use achavi (https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=108548780) to zoom in to your area and review each specific object separately.
It's simply not feasible to split up thematic map changes per county, unless you know of a JOSM tool that can perform that kind of action.
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Comment from snoozingnewt
I don't think this argument matters at all. Does it actually harm the map? No. Does it inconvenience you in any way? Not with the right tools. Personally, I'm completely fine with these edits.
And by the way tekim, the wiki states
"use of find-and-replace functionality using a standard editor such as JOSM or finding using services such as Overpass API and changing without reviewing cases individually". The edits seem to have all been reviewed already by Casper, so it shouldn't be a problem. -
Comment from tekim
If every data element (way, node, relation) was individually reviewed, then it is not a mechanical edit, but based on what Casper has said, that is not what happened here (for example, there was no mention of loading all elements about to be changed into something like the todo list and looking at each one individually).
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Comment from Friendly_Ghost
You mean you want me to look at all 3,2k buildings individually and replace the same tags over and over again? The ctrl+F tool was invented and implemented specifically for this kind of usage.
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Comment from MxxCon
>Does it actually harm the map? No.
@snoozingnewt, but the issue at hand. Do you know for sure that every single one of these 3200 changes is correct for the situation it's in? That's why people monitor the map to spot any potential issues, intentional or not. It's very difficult to review a single changeset with 3200 changes.> Does it inconvenience you in any way? Not with the right tools.
It does if you try to ensure that edits that go into OSM are of high quality. As an example, that archavi link posted earlier errors out with "osmDiff: runtime error: Query timed out in "query" at line 1 after 181 seconds."
Most tools are not designed to wrangle such huge changesets. -
Comment from Friendly_Ghost
> It's very difficult to review a single changeset with 3200 changes.
It's even more difficult to review 3,2k changesets with 1 change each. Choices have to be made and seeing that no one had taken up the job of updating these tags, I made this choice. There is no single solution that pleases everyone, but changes like this still need to be made.
If you can find or make a tool that splits up changes by geographic area, I'll happily use it, and I think several other mappers would also be very happy with it.
> that archavi link posted earlier errors out
That's a complaint to send to achavi rather than to me. Many changesets are larger than this one, imports for example.
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Comment from snoozingnewt
@MxxCon it would obviously time out with the entire changeset, but there's an option to make the bounding box smaller. If you're only reviewing one area, it shouldn't be a problem.
Ex: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/802176475230371864/868966985076187196/unknown.png -
Comment from Zaneo
Specifically addressing this point:
>Just because people don't comment on your changesets doesn't mean they completely approve of you making giant multi-continent bounding boxes.
If people don't raise issues they have, then they can't be upset when those issues aren't considered.
About large bounding boxes. Taking the max and min lat/long of changes and drawing a box is not the greatest way to highlight area affected. Using a rotated rect could show very differently results for a long thin diagonal edit.
Or within the changeset box, highlighting some areas where change was actually affected.
My opinion about large bounding box issues is that they are a problem of the tools, not the act. Review tools that don't properly highlight the changes are causing mappers to get freaked out.
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Comment from skquinn
The standard in the US seems to be one changeset per state in most cases. In Texas I try to keep them smaller when feasible as Texas is huge.
I agree that the bounding box system isn't perfect but it's what we've got.
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Comment from Zaneo
Are there any reliable tools for determining which "state" a node belongs too? (On a global level).
Or is it something like:
Query all the administrative boundaries. Find out what level is state in each country. Find if the node is enclosed in the polygon of the administrative boundary? -
Comment from Minh Nguyen
Take a look at the syntax that the Overpass turbo query wizard generates for the “in” operator <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_turbo/Wizard#Location_Filters> or, more directly for JOSM, the area filter in the raw query language <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API/Overpass_QL#By_area_.28area.29>.
The contiguous U.S. has 51 state-level administrative boundaries to query within. If you prefer, you could batch up a few of the more compact states. This is quite a reasonable alternative to either extreme of a single changeset or thousands of them.
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Comment from Minh Nguyen
(Embarrassingly, I miscounted the number of boundaries above, but you get the idea.)
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Comment from Friendly_Ghost
Hello Minh Nguyen
It's an interesting thought and I've already considered it. What you propose means that I have to check the same tags 50 times, which is an awful lot of extra work, and people would still complain that my changesets cover entire states while the clusters are in cities. My workflow would be slowed by a factor 50 and nothing would be gained from it.
These changes are very simple to scale up and uploading them in one changeset means that everyone only has to look at the changes once. Considering how many more of these tags exist globally, scaling up the only feasible way to do much-needed updates like this.
Best regards
Casper
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Comment from Lee Carré
This BS continues elsewhere, wonderful.
There's way too much nonsense to even begin addressing.
Casper; at this rate you're gonna end up being reported for vandalism, disruption, or similar. I doubt that admins will be quite so patient with you before dropping the banhammer.
Best of luck with that.For a student (according to your profile) you don't seem to do so well with the listening & learning thing.
Or, is it that you lecture your professors on how water management (and teaching) should be done?The planet(.osm) doesn't revolve around you.
Sad to see that even OSM in infected with trouble-makers. Tiresome.
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