Changeset: 14303214
CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway
Closed by stevea
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (5608 en) |
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Discussion
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Comment from Minh Nguyen
While “CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway” may be signposted in a few spots, it isn’t signposted prominently or frequently enough for general usage. Changeset 50044505 moves it to the official_name tag and restores “Cabrillo Highway”, which is the legislatively defined name for the entire stretch of freeway.
Incidentally, this specific name came up as an argument for eliminating highway names entirely while testing navigation software at Mapbox. That would be unfortunate, because the name tag is where you also find “Pacific Coast Highway” and the like.
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Comment from stevea
Really, Minh? OK, if you think this is more correct. Are you sure you're not checking on many of or all my edits since 2009? I do live here and see the signs (I was just driving this stretch of highway TODAY), but if you want to "localize" this and call the whole stretch Cabrillo Highway The Cabrillo Highway, OK, you got it. And "official_name"? Is that something you coined?
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Comment from Minh Nguyen
Haha, no, I’m not stalking you! :-D A coworker of mine pointed out how the Mapbox Navigation SDK was trying to say, “Continue on CA 1, CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway, for 14 miles”. It took almost 7 seconds to say this mouthful, and the corresponding label in the UI shrank to a tiny font just to fit it all in there.
You’re right that the signs bearing Officer Pedro’s name are posted along the highway, but it’s not nearly as frequent as the Highway 1 shield, is it?
The official_name tag is… official:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:official_name
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/official_nameBack in 2012, Foursquare switched to OSM, and a prominent Foursquare superuser had only nice things to say – except the unwieldy official names I had placed on the map, especially “Staff Sergeant Matt Maupin Veterans Memorial Freeway”. It was then that I finally came around to using the official_name tag:
An alternative to putting Officer Pedro’s name on the highway would be to map the signs themselves as historic=memorial POIs.
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Comment from stevea
So, am I understanding you to say is that tagging what the signs say is "wrong" (or less right than"on the ground verifiable") and that what the name tag SHOULD say for corporate consumers of OSM data (like Mapbox and Foursquare...) is what corporate consumers of OSM data like Mapbox and Foursquare WANT it to say? Even when "lowly" users like me not in the know how OSM data "might" be used by its corporate consumers?
Gee, that seems odd.
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Comment from Minh Nguyen
No, that’s not at all what I’m saying. Just to be clear, I believe we’re talking about these signs:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/navymailman/5637080430
As opposed to these signs, which I think do call for using the name tag:
https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/t/sign-pacific-coast-highway-california-52305409.jpg
The difference is that it isn’t practical to identify the highway by “CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway”. Not only is the name unusually long, but it’s also posted too sparsely for someone to use on the ground. If someone comes in from Riverside Dr. and leaves on Green Valley, they’ll never see this name:
https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/wSEpEKjppPynptwQrp6XvA
If we use the name tag, a user of OSM-based navigation software (corporate or otherwise) might well miss a turn trying to get onto Highway 1.
My suggestion (and what I ended up doing in changeset 50044505) was to move Officer Pedro’s name to the official_name tag. A renderer, geocoder, or router can choose to make use of official_name. In fact, several applications do use this tag. Perhaps they give official names more appropriate treatment when they’re in the official_name tag:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/official_name#projects
Finally, please don’t interpret my remarks here as a sort of corporate takeover. I’m still a volunteer mapper by night, even if I happen to work by day on software that relies on OSM. (For the record, I was working elsewhere on non-OSM software in 2012.) I brought up Mapbox because I’m sensitive to how OSM is used in the real world and want to ensure that ultimately end users are best served by the choices we make here. I hope we agree on that point.
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Comment from Minh Nguyen
Incidentally, the Mapbox Navigation SDK is open source, and so is the routing software that powers it:
https://github.com/Project-OSRM/osrm-backend/
https://github.com/mapbox/mapbox-navigation-ios/I understand that it’d be inappropriate to tailor our mapping to any particular router, but we still need to take into consideration the needs of data consumers (and end users) in general.
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Comment from stevea
Thanks for the detailed explanation, Minh, though I believe you walk a very fine line here.
Ways (1-20 of 21)
- 1
- 2
- CA 1 (196824328), v1
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (196824329), v1
- CA 1 (118632692), v8
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (38096411), v9
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (27879725), v28
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (38096417), v9
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (38096414), v9
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (38096420), v9
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (34200150), v10
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (38096410), v9
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (118632732), v8
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (38096416), v9
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (38096413), v9
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (38096419), v17
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (118632682), v8
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (38096412), v9
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (38096418), v9
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (38096415), v9
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (118632656), v8
- CHP Officer John Pedro Memorial Highway (118632675), v11
Relations (1)
Nodes (2)
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