Changeset: 30750538
Wien: remove abbreviations from names
Closed by zimba
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (8279 en) |
---|---|
source | local knowledge |
Discussion
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Comment from fkv
This change is evil, because applications do not have the space to write "Kleingartenverein...". KGV is not an abbreviation, it is an acronym. Didn't you consider that there may be good reason why so many KGVs were tagged that way, by many different mappers? You should not do a mass edit like this without former discussion. Please revert and have a look at the mechanical edit policy.
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Comment from zimba
The reason for this change was that there was a mix of "Kleingartenverein" and "KGV" all over Vienna (so much for the acronym argument, it's not prevailing enough that everyone used it). Also, most allotments are big enough for the label to fit, for most others the abbreviation also wouldn't fit. Making the name shorter to fit on the map would be "mapping for the renderer", so that's also not a good argument.
(And if you want to render a map with only "KGV" instead of "Kleingartenverein", it's not a problem because the mapping from the long version to the abbreviation is clearly defined.)Last but not least please note that although this changeset contains more than a single object (already a mass edit?), it's not a mechanical edit since I checked _every_ _single_ name before changing it (and in cases where I couldn't find an association I changed the "wrong" KGV to "Kleingartenanlage").
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Comment from fkv
If there was a mix, and you think that naming should be unified, you can discuss the matter in the Talk-AT mailinglist. Only if you find a consensus there, you may start thinking about a mass edit. In case of Kleingartenanlage ÖBB Landwirtschaft, the acronym KGA was correctly set. You cannot claim that you checked every single object, because that would require you to travel to hundreds of KGVs, which you cannot have accomplished within a few days. I know that some of them are labelled KGV... in situ. We map what we see. How dare you set source="local knowledge" when you were not even there?
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Comment from zimba
You're right, that "local knowledge" was only totally correct for the first changeset where I know the area personally, and not so much for the other cases where I used the internet to acquire knowledge about that locality. Lesson learned: I'll just leave away the source information in the future, to minimize the attack surface.
If, for some reason (financial, aesthetic, ...) the label at the gate says "KGV", this doesn't change the real name of the allotment. (The sign "TU" in front of http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/35383452 also doesn't change the name of it.) "KGV" is an abbreviation (or an acronym, which is a special form of an abbreviation). And we have well defined rules for abbreviations ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Abbreviation_.28don.27t_do_it.29 ), therefore I didn't see a reason to discuss this on the mailing list, and just corrected the errors.
If you want, you can add the "KGV..." names using the "short_name" tag, that would be the correct place for it. But please don't tag for the renderer.
And please don't make this bigger as it is, the four changesets touch 77 ways in total, not "hundreds". Some quick changes in a densely mapped area touch more nodes/ways than these changes did.
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Comment from fkv
Search Nominatim for "TU Wien"... The wiki section you refer to says that there are exceptions from the "don't abbreviate" rule. One example is "St", e.g. node 240038219. Other examples could be "Dr." or "Kfz" or A/B/L for Autobahn/Bundesstraße/Landesstraße. Nobody writes "Doctor John Doe" or "Autobahn 1" in full.
Adding a short_name is what you need to do yourself when you remove an abbreviation from name=*. Currently, due to your incomplete changes, all the KGVs are no more retrievable using the common acronym.
A web search is fine when you do it properly. You would find out that the official name of KGV Frohsinn is actually Arbeiter-Dauerkleingartenverein-Frohsinn. However, name=* is for the common name, which is just "KGV Frohsinn". The spelling variation "Kleingartenverein Frohsinn" is neither common nor official.
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Comment from flaimo
Wir mappen nicht für den Renderer. Zum Thema Abkürzungen steht auch was im Wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Names#Abk.C3.BCrzungen_.28nicht_verwenden.21.29
Die Änderung auf die Langform ist daher aus meiner Sicht OK.
Wenn du unbedingt eine Kurzform brauchst dann füge "abbreviation"="KGV Hinterdupfing" dazu.
Ways (1-20 of 33)
- 1
- 2
- Kleingartenanlage ÖBB Landwirtschaft (134196111), v2
- Kleingartenverein Am Ries (152180817), v5
- Kleingartenverein Am Satzberg Alt (188929117), v6
- Kleingartenverein An der Heingasse (159589147), v3
- Kleingartenverein Atzgersdorfer Heide (143871228), v3
- Kleingartenverein Baumgartnerhöhe (152175347), v5
- Kleingartenverein Bergfriede (206321197), v4
- Kleingartenverein Blumenfreunde (26644378), v5
- Kleingartenverein Donaufelder Kleingärtner (239811513), v3
- Kleingartenverein Eisenbahner-Laudonwiese (26263481), v8
- Kleingartenverein Ernteland (152024751), v2
- Kleingartenverein Gloggargrund (143854457), v4
- Kleingartenverein Grünlandwidmung Donaufeld (139161045), v5
- Kleingartenverein Gut Freund (139166761), v3
- Kleingartenverein Hackenberg, Gruppe Gräf und Stift (39338632), v5
- Kleingartenverein Hackenberg, Gruppe Hang (25565024), v13
- Kleingartenverein Hackenberg, Gruppe Kranl (167302231), v4
- Kleingartenverein Hackenberg, Gruppe Schrammwiese (317178359), v2
- Kleingartenverein Hagenberg (152024750), v3
- Kleingartenverein Kolbeterberg (237070978), v3
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