Changeset: 36110261
power=generator -> power=plant
Closed by Olyon
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (9060 fr) |
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Discussion
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Comment from SomeoneElse
You've edited Calder Hall http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4737028 - are you suggesting that it's operating again? Or was this perhaps a mechanical edit where you didn't actually check the data that you were changing :)
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Comment from Olyon
Calder Hall : I add power=plant and disused=yes. it was a power plant but not now.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
As http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:disused: makes clear, adding "disused=yes" is a bad idea - it makes Calder Hall look like an operational power plant (which it isn't). Note that the area mapped as http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4737028 is the whole "Calder Hall" site, in which various industrial processes take place. It's labelled as such to distinguish it from "Sellafield" just to the northwest. The original Calder Hall reactors were on part of the Calder Hall site, but only a very small part of it. It never was in its entirety a nuclear power plant (the reactors there were of course primarily designed to create plutonium for nuclear wapons, not electrical power).
"armchair" mapping of this type without any knowledge of the subject or area devalues the data in OpenStreetMap and devalues the work of all the other mappers who contribute to the project. Please don't do it.
If you think that something that you are unfamiliar with is "wrong" you have lots of options. In this case you could have contacted the previous mapper (who is actually a Cumbria native), or you could have contacted local mappers via the talk-gb list, or via #osm-gb via IRC.
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Comment from Olyon
a tag exists description=Former nuclear power plant before my change. i just translate with real tag.
you talk about reactor but the tag for this it's power=generator. Other things in the site : yes but it produced electricity so power=plant.
yes my changeset it's a "armchair" mapping but your reverse too. i never go to Calder Hall but that does not mean that what I did is wrong.
disused=yes or disused: , it's so clear to everyone that there are more of disused=yes according taginfo than all of disused:* -
Comment from Olyon
(sorry for my english, I,m french)
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Comment from SomeoneElse
Re "i just translate with real tag" - no, Calder Hall was always much more than a nuclear power station. It did _contain_ a former nuclear power plant (actually at least 4 reactors - there were others elsewhere on the wider site such as a prototype AGR). It is _not_ now a power plant, so mapping it as a power plant is simply incorrect.
Tagging as "disused=yes" is simply malking everyone's life harder - you're sying in one tag that it _is_ something and in another that it _isn't_. If you think there's a concensus in favour of disused=yes I suggest that you ask on a mailing list or in a forum :)
And yes, I have been to Sellafield, though it was a while ago when the Calder Hall cooling towers and both Windscale chimneys were in place.
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Comment from Olyon
ha ok! you have been to Sellafield so you know all of the site. :)
But my change is not affect all of Sellafield site but Calder Hall. my, I just take my info on wikipedia and it's write that Calder Hall was a nuclear power station on Sellafield site. :) . a contributor created a area for Calder Hall with description=Former nuclear power plant so I foolishly think that the contributor did not make any mistakes
there's not a concensus in favour of disused=yes but the concensus in favour of disused: don't existed too (there are at least 2 or 3 times more disused=yes than disused: ).
if the problem is the use of disused,
you asked me to make the change, I would have done, but you prefer to spread your knowledge on a subject that you do not really understand and clear my contribution with a revert. -
Comment from SomeoneElse
Re "I just take my info on wikipedia", well, strictly speaking, the licence is incompatible - we can't provide wikipedia with the attribution that their licence would require. Of course in this case, the statement "Calder Hall was a nuclear power station on Sellafield site." is attestable through the local knowledge of many people, including me (if you consider the Calder Hall site, Sellafield and Windscale to be part of the same site, which makes some sort of sense - the original reason for the division is essentially political). But the Calder Hall power stations do not occupy the whole of the current Calder Hall site, and you therefore extrapolated incorrectly (and therefore without proper checking, making the edit essentially mechanical).
Note that I did engage you here before reverting, but your reply ("Calder Hall : I add power=plant and disused=yes. it was a power plant but not now.") was factually incorrect for the reasons discussed at length above and didn't address the issues that I raised.
Re disused=yes, have you actually looked in detail about people's use of lifecycle tags in detail? I have - even when looking at just one type of object there is a huge variety of different tagging (see https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/SomeoneElse-style/blob/master/style.lua#L399 for example). Looking in more detail, "disused=yes" in around me has 3 many components. In order these are:
1) A historical import of former petroleum wells
2) Things that are still present but not used or usable for their former purpose (e.g. a some buildings and canal with water in it that's no longer used for navigation - it's not a derelict_canal, but it's not actually used any more)
3) (by far the smallest portion) People using disused=yes instead of "disused:tag=value".
Ways (14)
- Almaraz II (91403522), v5
- Almaraz I (91403573), v5
- Bradwell Nuclear Power Station (58628915), v7
- Central Nuclear Santa Maria de Garoña (218986253), v4
- Central nuclear José Cabrera (32733973), v12
- Central nuclear de Almaraz (125338442), v2
- Central nuclear de Lemóniz (30090162), v6
- Central nuclear de Vandellòs I (265660237), v3
- Central tèrmica de Cicle Combinat Plana del Vent (265660236), v7
- Oldbury Nuclear Power Station (disused) (108907185), v10
- Berkeley Nuclear Power Station (95279318), v5
- Kernkraftwerk Beznau (98520577), v2
- Kernkraftwerk Mühleberg (92933389), v8
- 98520429, v5
Relations (1)
Nodes (3)
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