Changeset: 37697227
Changed Curaçao's admin_level.
Closed by Geography Canada
Tags
created_by | iD 1.9.1 |
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host | https://www.openstreetmap.org/id |
imagery_used | Bing |
locale | en-US |
Discussion
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Comment from wambacher
reverted by https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/37705806
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Comment from SomeoneElse
Hi EzekielT,
People have contacted you several times in the past about invalid admin level changes (including me, in https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/33275714 ).
Whereas most things in OpenStreetMap are simply a matter of going and surveying something and then adding the results to OSM, with admin levels it's all too easy to make countries and parts of countries "disappear" and cause other people lots of work just because you make a silly change. There's a forum at http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=53173 in which admin levels are discussed. Please do not make any changes to admin levels without discussing it in the relevant country forum or mailing list, and in the "Internationale Admingrenzen 2016" forum.
If you continue to make changes like this without discussion first you will be blocked from editing OpenStreetMap in the future.
Best Regards,
Andy Townsend (SomeoneElse) on behalf of OpenStreetMap's Data Working Group. -
Comment from Geography Canada
I have many sources: http://www.stabroeknews.com/2010/news/regional/10/09/netherlands-antilles-no-more/, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituent_country, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aruba, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sint Maarten, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curacao (although you did say we can't use Wikipedia as a source).
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Comment from SomeoneElse
One of the articles you quote says "Aruba is one of the four constituent countries that form the Kingdom of the Netherlands". http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2323309 is the admin level 2 relation; Curaçao http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1216719 is a subarea of that.
As I've said above, if you think something is wrong you need to discuss it - please don't just dive in and change something that you don't understand. Many (most?) of your edits so far have had to be reverted. I'd suggest that instead of changing international admin levels you instead go out and map the shops in your local high street, or the things in your local park. -
Comment from Geography Canada
That's a good idea. Okay.
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Comment from tbakhuis
Curacao is not NL as the Nominitem geocoder suggests.
Currently a lot of addresses are displayed in OSM as Street, Willemstad, 0000AA, NL. This is not correct. Here in Curacao we don't have zip codes and the NL should be changed to CW. Since 10-10 2010 Curaçao is an autonomous Country that is part of the Netherlands. Before this, the Country used to be NA (Netherlands Antilles) but never NL. PLease change this for the whole island so the geocoder addresses show up properly
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Comment from SomeoneElse
Thanks - I've added a comment over at https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=675663#p675663 (which is the forum where admin levels etc. are discussed). However, I'm not actually sure whether you're describing a problem with the data in OSM or with the Nominatim geocoder (Curaçao is "an autonomous country", but also "part of the Netherlands").
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Comment from tbakhuis
It does sound strange when you see it like that but we never put NL (Netherlands) as country. I live in Curacao it just doesn't look right when we see Curacao, NL. Google's Geocoder has it right this time. Google Geocoder has Street, Willemstad, Curaçao
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Comment from wambacher
please read this answer at the forum:
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Just for clarification:
There is a 'Kingdom of the Netherlands' (plural intended) - or 'Koninkrijk der Nederlanden' (idem).
Within this kingdom there are 4 autonomous countries:
- the Netherlands (again, plural intended in English), but 'Nederland' (no plural) in Dutch - and note: without 'kingdom' here;
- Curacao;
- Aruba;
- St. Maarten.
Each of these 4 above have full authority over everything apart from defense and representation at the UN - these 2 are done by the Netherlands / Nederland for all 4.
The latter 3 are former parts of the Netherlands Antilles, an administrative unit that no longer exists.
The other parts of the former Netherlands Antilles, the islands of Bonaire, Saba and St. Eustatius, are 'special administrative units', sort of special counties, within the Netherlands / Nederland.The issue mentioned above is that Curacao is treated with postal codes from the Netherlands / Nederland, which is indeed incorrect.
So there is a 'Kingdom of the Netherlands' (covering 4 countries) and a 'the Netherlands' (being one country within aforementioned kingdom).
I hope this clarifies rather than confuses ;-)
Marcel
(I spend some 3 days on a conference about 8, 9 years ago explaining this to an ISO commission who dealt with this sort of geo-chaos, including UK crown colonies, FR special overseas departments, special autonomous regions ... etc.). I know first-hand it's hard.
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link to forum: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=675685#p675685 -
Comment from Geography Canada
That's what I knew all this time, but I guess all of you still didn't listen :).
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Comment from wambacher
Hi EzekielT. no easy stuff ;)
see https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=675929#p675929 -
Comment from Geography Canada
Maybe we should tag all of them (Kingdom of the Netherlands, the Netherlands, Aruba, Sint Maarten, and Curaçao) as admin_level=2, as they're all officially countries!
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Comment from Geography Canada
As in:
Kingdom of the Netherlands (including the Netherlands, Aruba, Curaçao, and Sint Maarten) -> admin_level=2
Netherlands -> admin_level=2
Curaçao -> admin_level=2.
Aruba -> admin_level=2.
Sint Maarten -> admin_level=2.
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Comment from tbakhuis
Seems correct to me. Indeed they're are all countries
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