Changeset: 46967476
So what are greenways, living streets?
Closed by nvk
Tags
created_by | iD 2.1.3 |
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host | https://www.openstreetmap.org/id |
imagery_used | Bing aerial imagery |
locale | en-US |
Discussion
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Comment from Peter Dobratz
Greenways should not be tagged as highway=living_street.
Rather than changing the highway tag on the Way objects for the roads, look at tags like sidewalk=* and cycleway=lane where sidewalks and bike lanes exist as part of the road.
The Greenway designation should probably best be captured with a bicycle route relation. For editing relations, it's best to use JOSM instead of iD.
Living Street is a concept that is mainly used in Europe for residential streets where pedestrians and cars share the road. In order to be safe, the speed limit is typically "walking speed" or about 3 mph. Most minor roads in the USA have speed limits between 20 and 30 mph so would not be characterized as a highway=living_street but rather highway=residential or highway=unclassified.
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Comment from nvk
Thanks for the background! Is this a case where tags (should) mean something slightly different from country to country (like how implied max speed is interpreted)? The highway=living_street tag was suggested to me by someone else commenting on another changeset, lol. The reason I like it is it should try and route cars around this street.
Tiffany Avenue is already part of a bicycle route relation – but that alone doesn't signify as almost all the bike related streets in San Francisco are already in relations so that isn't a meaningful indicator that this particular street has better biking than others nearby.
Tiffany has `cycleway=shared_lane` and John and I have also experimented with adding a `bicycle:designated=greenway` tag. Looking at Portland there are streets that aren't residential that are designated as part of a greenway so maybe this is the best (new) tag to use.
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Comment from Peter Dobratz
It makes sense that the router would tend to prefer other routes that don't go through highway=living_street as you would be required to drive really slowly on that section. However, in reality there is no such restriction (apart from the fact that you are more likely to have to slow down to avoid hitting cyclists).
You seem to be making these edits all over including places not local to yourself. Are you interfacing with local communities at all? I'll post on the talk-us email list to get some more feedback.
I live in Portland, Oregon and I think the tag bicycle=designated has been use quite a bit on roads around here that some government agency has determined should be better for bicycles (as such they are often signed with a "Bike Route" sign). However, bicycle=designated doesn't really say that cars should be discouraged from using the road at all. Also, I think the "greenway" designation goes above and beyond the regular bike routes, but cars are still allowed on those roads and still allowed to drive up to the speed limit where conditions permit. I could go along with adding a "bicycle:designated=greenway" to the roads. -
Comment from nvk
Thanks! Alternatively from bicycle:designated=greenway it could be bicycle=greenway (and bicycle=greenwave). But then we get into tagging for (older) renderer debates.
This GIST lists the OpenStreetMap tags the Mapzen bike map is using to display bike route colors: https://gist.github.com/nvkelso/fe46993c6c334b52c4b9d6cf5aabffa7
I'm making edits to places I live, have visited, or have done multi-source research – including official and unofficial local bike maps (print and online). I'm also making edits based on comments from locals in these areas saying the previous basic tagging didn't match their on-the-ground experience or expectations from a bike map.
The existing OSM wiki documented tags for bicycle needs to grow a bit to describe things like bike boulevards, greenwaves, and buffered_lanes. I'm happy to move the discussion along!
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Comment from nvk
(Replied some more in the us-talk thread.)
Ways (1)
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