Changeset: 47523302
For standardisation, switched to shop=motorcycle with service tag "repair". Please check whether more services apply : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmotorcycle
Closed by ti-lo
Tags
created_by | iD 2.1.3 |
---|---|
host | http://www.openstreetmap.org/id |
imagery_used | Bing aerial imagery |
locale | de |
Discussion
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Comment from DaveF
Hi ti-lo
I've notice you've changed shop=motorcycle_repair to shop=motorcycle
What source did you use to ascertain they sell motorcycles? -
Comment from ti-lo
A shop=motorcycle doesn't have to sell motorcycles. It's possible they repair, sell tyres, clothes or other stuff. To enable frontends to filter this, I'm standardizing the key. This means the "main" category is "shop", the "subcategories" motorcycle *:* (called "services"). The services existed already since 2010, but weren't easy to filter and there was a mixture of different keys in use. Let me know if I should explain that more precisely in the wiki.
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Comment from DaveF
Even if the revised tagging system is adopted (Was there any discussion?) you haven't confirmed whether it sells motorcycles or not.
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Comment from ti-lo
I'not sure whether I get the point.
Which discussion do you mean, this one ?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/service:bicycle
And do you mean I should confirm whether this shop sells motorcycles ?
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3179844246
(can't do that as my crystal ball is broken ;-) ) -
Comment from DaveF
I'm unsure why you don't get my point.
Was it discussed on https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/ ?"can't do that as my crystal ball is broken" < this is the problem. You've edited a tag from being correct to incorrect without any knowledge.
According to you're wiki edits, the way you've tagged it implies it sells motorcycles. This is not good process. -
Comment from ti-lo
Hi Dave,
the former tagging was :
name Pete Robson
service MOT_motorcycle
shop motorcycle_repair
Now it is :
motorcycle:repair yes
name Pete Robson
service MOT_motorcycle
shop motorcycleThe description of shop=motorcycle
says since 15 August 2010 :
"A shop that sells motorcycles and/or related accessories, clothes, parts, repair and rental services."The "service tag" was at this time :
repair=yes/brand/oldtimer/no/... - repairs / maintains motorcycleshttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:shop%3Dmotorcycle&diff=548821&oldid=517671
So there were several possibilities to tag a shop with "repair". The same applies for rental and clothes.
Concerning this actual shop, I didn't use motorcycle:sales=no, as I can't say whether it (meanwhile) possibly sells used bikes.
In case your problem is about the term "shop" : There are other "shops" also which don't sell (physical) goods, i.e a tattoo shop or a laundry.
We could possibly make this point more clear in the wiki.The goal (of the "switch" to the "shop" tagging is to "standardize" the tagging of motorcycle-related shops. This should avoid misunderstandigs because of different interpretation when something is mainly "repair" or "shop". Also, frontends should get a chance to use these parameters easier (for example to filter on "motorcycle:*.*" to list the properties).
Any improvement idea is certainly welcome. -
Comment from DaveF
Hi
"as I can't say whether it (meanwhile) possibly sells used bikes." < Again, this is the problem. You've explicitly changed it from 'definitely doesn't sell bikes' to 'definitely does sell bikes' *without* any knowledge. -
Comment from ti-lo
Hi Dave, I'm not sure whether you read my answers. The description of shop=motorcycle INCLUDES REPAIR SINCE 2010 : "A shop that sells motorcycles and/or related accessories, clothes, parts, repair and rental services."
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmotorcycle
So this is NOT 'definitely does sell bikes'
If a shop mainly repairs, but sells a used bike from time to time, which key would you use ? I won't tag the shop to "motorcycle:sales=no" as I can't say whether it was just sloppily tagged AND/OR if it meanwhile still applies (might be he now sells motorbikes). -
Comment from DaveF
Hi
if I were in your position I wouldn't have made the amendments due to lack of *any* knowledge to justify the changes. Your last sentence confirms why.shop=motorcycle_repair means it doesn't sell bikes. You've now made it, at best, ambiguous.
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Comment from ti-lo
In my point of view it's just another way to express the same thing (and to enable people to tag further properties of the item).
It would be great if you'd propose how to solve this (in your point of view) "issue" instead of keeping on complaining. In the last seven years there would have been enogh opportunities to distinguish between the two possibilities, but no one took action.
In case you'd like to switch back to this (never voted on, "Status: De facto") key, feel free to do so. We'll see what the majority will map. -
Comment from DaveF
As explained previously you've change the meaning of the entity, not provided an alternative.
There is no 'issue' to solve. The entity was accurately & legitimately tagged before your amendments.
As you've no knowledge of this shop you should not have made any changes.I'm 'complaining' because you reduced the accuracy of the OSM database.
It's disappointing you believe others should correct your errors & fill in ambiguities you've created.I note another user has taken issue with your edits (which is even worse than this one).
I note you've been given a warning block. -
Comment from ti-lo
What do you think about that ?
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:shop%3Dmotorcycle_repair -
Comment from ti-lo
Would you please add your concerns to the discussion page ? (So everyone may add his/her point of view) :
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:shop%3Dmotorcycle -
Comment from DaveF
What are your plans to revert your erroneous edits?
PS
"These SHOULD be proposed on the tagging group!!! Not proposed on a wiki page." -
Comment from woodpeck
The bulk of ti-lo's motorcycle adjustments have been reverted in https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/47664678 and I recommended that a discussion is held on the tagging mailing list before changes are re-introduced.
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Comment from DaveF
@ti-lo
I look forward discussing your proposal on the Tagging mailing list.
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