Changeset: 48756035
more landuse=farm retagged
Closed by kreuzschnabel
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (12039 de) |
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source | Bing |
Discussion
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Comment from SomeoneElse
(re previous comment about mechanical edit of landuse=farm) http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2818914916/history is one in an area that I do know, and I certainly wouldn't describe it as a "place=farm". The last time I was there was a while ago, but I suspect it's still operational and should really be mapped as "landuse=farmyard".
Mechanically editing landuse=farm to place=farm doesn't fix any problems; it just moves them from one bucket labelled "things that need mapping properly" to a different one labelled "other things that need mapping properly".
Perhaps the next time you're driving up the A1 you could take a detour through cabbage country and see which farms are still operational (i.e. aren't just residential now) and map the farmyards properly :) -
Comment from SomeoneElse
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2699887733 is another one - it's a bit longer ago that I was there, but I don't remember anywhere that I'd describe as "place=farm" SE of Witham.
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Comment from kreuzschnabel
You see me quite baffled to learn that place=farm does not describe a farm. It seemed quite plain to me so far. I certainly did not do a mechanical edit, I only assumed this to be the proper tagging for remote farms. As this seems to be not the case, maybe we should consider a revert while I’m looking up if highway=motorway is in fact meant for former carriageways turned into car parks instead of actual motorways. Unfortunately, landuse=* on a single node is not valid code, so it means nothing, in a strict way of speaking. Personally, I’m not sure yet I can afford a journey up the A1 this year :( though I’d really like to.
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Comment from SK53
place=farm is generally not regarded as a valid/useful tag in the UK. Standard practice is to map actual farms with landuse=farmyard and ones which are now residential (lots) with landuse=residential. Sometimes place=locality may also be used if widely used (remote highland areas). In most of lowland Britain farms locations are a result of enclosure and so are recent & not representatives of historically used placenames. The exceptions are mainly the (highly inaccurate) work of one mapper who has been asked to desist but does not respond to messages. I'm sure this has been discussed on talk-gb several times in the past.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
Re "place=farm does not describe a farm" - presumably it's a farm (based on the previous landuse=farm tagging); the thing that's in doubt is whether it's any sort of "place" or not. Of the couple of dozen farms nearest to me the only one that I can think of that might deserve the tag is "Owlcotes" http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/372460251 (though I actually went with landuse=farmyard there on balance). Most farmyards really aren't places at all, any more than any other industrial companies or warehouses are. That's not to say that in wilder places elsewhere place=farm might make sense, but as SK53 says in the UK in OSM it means mostly that someone has copied a name from an OS Streetview map with no local knowledge or survey. For example, I very much doubt that https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2661890946/history#map=15/53.1960/-0.4214 is called "Poultry Farm" - it may be _a_ poultry farm but that is probably not its name. Also many former rural farmyards (near me I'd guess 40%) aren't really farmyards any more, but are now just residential, but you mostly need to visit to see for sure.
Best Regards,
Andy -
Comment from kreuzschnabel
Given my edit was that wrong, it would be easy to retrieve all node["place"="farm"](user:"kreuzschnabel")(newer:"2017-05-14T00:00:00Z") from overpass-turbo and retag them to landuse=farm. That should install the previous state, as if I’d never touched them. The polygons edited by me should be fine since I didn’t tag them as places.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
An Overpass query would grab all the pre-existing place=farm as well, of which there were quite a few in Lincolnshire, which this changeset covers.
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Comment from kreuzschnabel
It wouldn’t grab them unless they were wrongly double-tagged both landuse=farm and place=farm previously. My changesets definitively did not touch anything else than landuse=farm, so nodes tagged place=farm only would not be affected.
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Comment from kreuzschnabel
My proposed query would affect 48 nodes in (roughly) Lincolnshire: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/pqk, out of 6,446 total: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/pql
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Comment from kreuzschnabel
Sorry, bbox is not included in shortlink. So it’s
http://overpass-api.de/api/interpreter?data=%5Bout%3Ajson%5D%5Btimeout%3A25%5D%3B%28node%5B%22place%22%3D%22farm%22%5D%28user%3A%22kreuzschnabel%22%29%28newer%3A%222017%2D05%2D14T00%3A00%3A00Z%22%29%2852%2E609719391566%2C%2D0%2E8843994140625%2C53%2E621837552541%2C0%2E37353515625%29%3B%29%3Bout%3B%3E%3Bout%20skel%20qt%3B%0A
versus
http://overpass-api.de/api/interpreter?data=%5Bout%3Ajson%5D%5Btimeout%3A25%5D%3B%28node%5B%22place%22%3D%22farm%22%5D%2852%2E609719391566%2C%2D0%2E8843994140625%2C53%2E621837552541%2C0%2E37353515625%29%3B%29%3Bout%3B%3E%3Bout%20skel%20qt%3B%0A
(I didn’t get exactly the same bbox again) -
Comment from SomeoneElse
Ah OK; Are you going to change these back then?
Obviously there's then a survey job to do to choose between landuse=farmyard, landuse=residential, landuse=industrial place=farm etc., but that can be done later (along with the existing place=farm nodes).
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Comment from kreuzschnabel
Done in CS #49137101.
- 2,723 single nodes "place=farm" within the entire UK which have been last edited by me after May 13th have been retrieved through overpass-turbo and exported to JOSM (none in N.Ireland, a dozen in Scotland, the rest in Wales and England).
- They have all been changed back from place=farm into landuse=farm.
- 13 of them had and still have a "fixme" (one in capitals).
- One was tagged "man_made=Gaileshill Farm", I changed this to "name=Guileshill Farm" (spelling fixed according to OS maps SV and 1:25k).
- I added a tag "note:retag=CS #48756035" to each of them so the lot may easily be selected later if necessary.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
Thanks!
Ways (1-20 of 28)
- 1
- 2
- 31958831, v14
- 32229411, v8
- 32229415, v6
- 32319802, v5
- 32319813, v4
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- 32453067, v6
- 32453072, v4
- 101081081, v3
- 101203772, v2
- New House Farm (119159823), v2
- 182976738, v2
- Fish Farm (196995042), v3
- 207593045, v2
- 230273162, v2
- 233302544, v2
- 240007942, v3
- 240007943, v4
- 240007944, v4
- 266347684, v3
- Manor Farm (20254232), v2
- High House Farm (175135543), v3
- Morton Hill Farm (255577446), v2
- 311207571, v2
- Corner Farm (353867161), v2
- Ryston Estate Home Farm (391990987), v2
- Crow Hall Farm (391991107), v2
- Rookery Farm (391991193), v4
- North Lynn Farm (430364611), v3
- 432597716, v2
- Poplar Farm (447081981), v3
- Rouse's Farm (447082063), v2
- Harrington Nurseries (565568852), v2
- Celia Farm (634898812), v2
- Turnover Farm (634898892), v2
- Ponderosa Farm (634899135), v2
- Rutland Farm (635189180), v2
- Coldham Hall Farm (635189239), v2
- Waldersley Farm (635189389), v2
- Friday Bridge International Farm Camp (635189402), v2
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