Changeset: 57261051
adding parking
Closed by fluffy_unicorn
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (13478 en) |
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source | Mapbox Satellite Imagery |
Discussion
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Comment from oba510
Hey, you deleted almost 1600 highway=service tags in just this one changeset. I don't have the time or energy to check every one, but almost all of the ones I looked at seem like perfectly valid parking aisles which should not have been changed. Can you fix this please?.
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Comment from Adamant1
Looks like this user ran rickshaw over the whole area for some reason. It seems kind of weird since they are part of a GIS team, whatever that means. Hopefully they are causing havoc now though. If you see them do any more problematic edits id report them to SomeoneElse and I will do the same. Then he can get them to stop.
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Comment from fluffy_unicorn
Dear oba510 and Adamant1, thank you for paying your attention to this issue. Please note, that I was not deleting highway=service tags, but rather service=parking_aisle. The reason for this consist in improving road connectivity with the purpose of navigation. First, some of these roads from which tag service=parking_aisle was deleted, in fact, do not qualify as such (e.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/482897411 - not parking aisle but a parking entry, https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/484653753 - functions as transit). Second, the segments of roads from which the tag service=parking_aisle was deleted carry out several functions, namely they can act as a passage through the parking area and/or serve to connect different parts of big parking lots together. I would like to suggest that this approach to mapping of parking areas is credible since it allows to improve visual perception of a map and to navigate better through big parkings of shopping centers or malls. What concerns small parking areas (that contain only one way), then due to the hierarchical significance of the tags highway=service and service=parking_aisle it is more appropriate to use higher standing tag highway=service since the primer function of the way in such areas would be to reach POI, whereas parking is of secondary importance. In case, if you have other questions do not hesitate to contact me. Kind regards.
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Comment from Adamant1
Fluffy Unicorn, I don't see how deleting the parking_aisle tag would improve navigation. If anything it makes it worse because there are many different kinds of service roads and therefore leaving the general tag without the sub tag makes it impossible to differentiate.
Also, although yes some parking aisles act as through roads, that does not make them any more or less one. per the wiki page on parking "The main way(s) on the parking lot, for entering and connecting multiple parking_aisle, should be mapped with highway=service, only," Also "A parking aisle is a subordinated way in a parking lot between rows of parking spaces that vehicles use to drive into and out of the spaces." I don't see your definition of parking aisles not connecting to other things being in there.
Further, although it might improve visual perception to make parking aisles just service roads, A. We are not suppose to be mapping for the renderer B. That could possibly only apply to this map because other service that use OSM might show might show the parking aisle tag completely different compared to just service roads. So your essentially screwing up other maps by changing them C. Ultimately if you have an issue with how something looks on the map, or you disagree with its definition, you should bring it up either at the github or wiki pages so the community can change it if need be. Instead of altering 1600 roads on your own, based only on what you think is best.
Id also that personally I think parking aisles and driveways look better on the map than just service roads because the difference helps me to spot check where parking lots and major retail areas are. So its really subjective. I did actually put in a github request for them to improved a while back, although I can't remember how that went or what the proposed improved was, but like I said that's always an option you can use.
Finally, id add that if anything its pointless for you to make the call and change things simply because sub tagging of service roads is pretty standard practice. Therefore, any road you alter will just get changed back by me, oba510, or anyone else for that matter. As is evidenced by a lot of places that I have checked where changed things that people put notes etc asking for the tag to put back. I guess its your time to waste if you want, but it does kind then make it on us to do more unnecessary work cleaning things up after. Not to mention there's the time the original mappers spent sub tagging everything to consider also.
Anyway, thanks for reading. I appreciate that you are open to dialog and suggestion on the subject. Like I said already, if you have a serious issue parking_aisles feel free to bring them up in the wiki and carto github pages. Outside of that though, I don't think its generally good practice to create our own definitions and to relabel a mass amount of things based on them. There's a lot of things id like to see done differently here, but I don't just try and create my own side map off this one. But anyway, I'm just repeating myself now. So I'll stop and get back to mapping :) -
Comment from Adamant1
Also Id note the definition win highway=service by itself, particularly this part "Generally for access to a building, service station, beach, campsite, industrial estate, business park, etc, this is also commonly used for access to parking, driveways, and alleys" Note the world TO, not THROUGH or IN (bold added because I can't underline). In essence it stops being a more general "service road" when it goes through the parking areas and becomes a more specific "parking aisle." Therefore, not adding the sub tag doesn't work in those situations because it is no longer a service road because it is not providing the service of getting the person TO the place, in this case parking, anymore. Note also, it mentions "for access to alleys," notice the "access to" here. It would not be correct to remove the alley sub tag label from a service road anymore than it is to do it to a parking aisle, because it would no longer be an alley. Instead it would be the road providing access to one. Even if alleys might not "look right" or go through to other roads, giving them the sub tag is still correct tagging. I think the same applies for parking aisles.
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