Changeset: 57695151
Reverted revert by yopaseopor (+ restored overtaking tags removed unintentionally by me + fixed distance units error) after talking to him about his mistakes, requesting proof of his claims and having waited him for 3 weeks to comply without further news
Closed by Antonio Eugenio Burriel
Tags
created_by | reverter;JOSM/1.5 (13590 en_GB) |
---|---|
source | knowledge |
Discussion
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Comment from yopaseopor
No estoy de acuerdo, faltan etiquetas, el que ha borrado vías correctas has sido tú, no yo (te recuerdo que escribiste literalmente "desastre",). Y no es cierto que haga tres semanas que no te respondo, además que has contado también la Semana Santa. Es una pena, el mapa ahora está menos completo e incorrecto en alguno de los tramos modificados por tus acciones.
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Comment from Antonio Eugenio Burriel
Hi yopaseopor, nice to get in touch again!
Would you be so kind of explaining us which information has been lost?
About what you said about the 3 weeks issue, last message I received from you was on 2018-03-08 22:16 CEST.
I guess you didn't receive my message on 2018-03-10 15:40 CEST requesting the documentation regarding your justification for reverting my contribution, which -I will remember you- you sent me on 2018-03-08 08:05 CEST, about 8 hours after the revert you did in just 6 hours after I contributed.
According to you changeset log, you were contributing regularly until 2018-03-22 22:06:14 (changeset #57439146). That's more than a week for having the education of providing the documentation I requested.
Please remember you did then a really strong claim, let me quote you:
"Hemos comprobado que has realizado un cambio de varios kilómetros de tamaño en los que has modificado la categoría de la N-340, pero además al cambiar las etiquetas se han borrado todas las etiquetas de adelantamientos, a lo largo de todo el recorrido. También han desaparecido las etiquetas de dirección diferenciando sentidos a lo largo del recorrido, así como sus restricciones. Es por ello que hablándolo con los compañeros de la comunidad catalana y española he revertido ese changeset en concreto, para no perder todos esos datos. [..]"Let me translate into English, for the record:
"We have confirmed you have made a several-kilometer long change modifying the category of N-340, furthermore all overtaking tags have been removed as well as way-direction tags and their restrictions. That’s why by talking with
the fellows of the Catalonian and Spanish group I’ve reverted that changeset, to not loose all this data."Was this true or was it a fraud?
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Comment from yopaseopor
It was true and No, what you are telling the people is not true completely. Read it. http://yopaseopor.blogspot.com.es/2018/04/no-no-estoy-contento-no-im-not-happy.html
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Comment from Antonio Eugenio Burriel
Hello yopaseopor,
thank you for your effort describing what data you thought was missing. I already acknowledged you my mistake about the overtaking tags I accidentally removed in my initial contribution. I would have preferred you had described which information was still missing on *this* changeset.
Please have in mind that:
1. Removing redundant attributes (i.e. same information present in two or more tags) is not loosing information.
2. Removing untagged nodes aligned in a straight line is not loosing information.
3. Removing malformed restriction relations is not loosing information. You should ask to whoever corrupted those restrictions I deleted and/or act constructively and add the correct relations.
4. Redefining the meaning of well-established tags on your free will is really wrong. You should be understanding this already, you know I’m not the first explaining you this.I insist you should read more thoroughly the official OSM documentation. Use of turn attributes, as opposed to change attributes, is officially approved. And of course many programs render them correctly (such JOSM w/Turn lanes plugin or OsmAnd).
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:turn
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/change
If you don’t know something, that doesn’t mean every else is wrong. Sometimes you are right, sometimes you are wrong. Arrogance is really dangerous.In regard to N-340, you show a screenshot of an ICGC (regional government -Catalonia- organization) map with no legend. As you should know, this road segment is presently owned and managed by central government -Spain-.
http://territori.gencat.cat/es/03_infraestructures_i_mobilitat/carreteres/observatori_viari_de_catalunya_viacat/descripcio_xarxa_autopistes_vies_alta_capacitat/2_3_caracteritzacio_de_la_xarxa/2_3_2_titularitat/Official documentation states that:
“Carretera nacional o Carretera autonómica de 1er nivel. Red or Orange signs.
e.g.,
N-340 M-111Suelen ser de doble sentido. Son las antiguas carreteras principales. Se identifican por ir su referencia dentro de un recuadro rojo o naranja, que se ve en las señales de preseñalización y en los puntos kilométricos. Si el tramo de carretera nacional ya está cedido a algún ayuntamiento o autonomía ya no es trunk ni lleva la ref antigua, excepto que ese ayuntamiento mantenga el nombre oficial. En los casos en que pueden ser en parte autovías (sin llegar a tener señalización de fondo azul) se les añade motorroad=)”
Which in short means that N-340 is trunk except for the segments transferred to local or regional governments.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Espa%C3%B1a/Normalizaci%C3%B3nSo it’s trunk.
One month later you show me as proof, a private message in Catalonian and a reference to a thread in official Telegram channel (#OSMEs) as a justification for acting on behalf of the OSM Communities of Spain & Catalonia. I’ll put the public link of the specific thread you are referring, starting @ 20:57:30:
https://view.matrix.org/room/!lpwBmXvFnPRatCGhrg:matrix.org/?anchor=$15236916013436hojAh:t2bot.io&offset=930
At 21:36 Néstor Serrano advises you to contact me. Let me quote him: "21:36:0 @telegram_357588457:t2bot.ionestor serrano (Telegram) Pregúntale de qué van los changeset antes, no?. Son muy grandes para mi y no mentero. Porqué estaba como primary, de todos modos?."In short, in just 141 minutes you, and only you fully reverts my contribution, having being advised contacting me first. And you told me you were representing the Spanish & Catalonian OSM Communities.
Sir, I believe you have a big problem with yourself and I advise you to reconsider the way you handle conflicts and interact with people, because acting in childish and unethical ways is not mature at all.
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Comment from yopaseopor
Sigues sin entenderlo. Voy a ser análitico para que la traducción de todo ello sea aceptable y no farragosa.
-No se trata de ser crío o no, la realidad es la que es y el que hizo un primer cambio pasándose por el forro las vías de comunicación habitual de OSM fuiste tú. Te he pasteado los nodos concretos que borraste y al rehacer las restricciones te las descuidate, Es tu problema si no sabes qué función tiene un nodo , tenga etiqueta o no.
-Es tu problema también si no sabes qué dice el Estatut d'Autonomia de Catalunya en su Artículo 140 punto 5. Que una carretera sea de una administración u otra no impide que quien la gestiona efectivamente es la Generalitat de Catalunya (por lo que sus categorías e informes de tráfico son igual de válidos, y aunque estos días suene raro recuerda que esas administraciones regionales forman parte del Estado y de su administración.)
-Es tu problema si no sabes buscar y ver las cosas que tienen diferente color, también es tu problema si no sabes leer un embed, no una imagen fija.
-Es tu problema si no sabes distinguir entre un general y un privado (que yo no pastee las conversaciones enteras e innecesarias por respeto a la privacidad de los usuarios no significa que no existan). También es tu problema si sabes sólo escoger la frase que te interesa y no toda la conversación (la empecé yo, pero veo que eso no te interesa, ni dándote la hora entera la pones).
-Y lo más grave al margen de ediciones: sigue siendo tu problema si te dedicas a insultar a la gente. Pero bueno, el que es capaz de usar un periodo vacacional como Semana Santa para intentar justificar sus argumentos no fui yo. Ya sabes quien fue. ¿Pero sabes qué? Yo no discuto con gente que me insulta. Tienes razón. Adiós.
In English you can translate it with Google Translator I will not spend any minute more to talk with people who insults me as Antonio does. -
Comment from Antonio Eugenio Burriel
Hi yopaseopor,
I’m genuinely surprised by how aggressive are you acting. I offer you my most sincere apologies for you feeling offended, but I truly fail to see how I’ve insulted you. My interaction with you has been restricted to rebate your affirmations with official documentation, by citing your own literal words and by avoiding so much belligerent language you’re using with me.
I use to think that people resort to belligerency when they run out of reasons -or are plain rude-. I’m totally responsible of my acts, but not of yours, they are solely your own responsibility.I invite you to sort this out in private, because we’re already far away of the main purpose of this argument, which is about the data quality of the area in dispute.
I’m glad you finally agreed that before reverting other people’s work, one must take effort on contacting and debating with the original contributor.
Please remember how much time and effort I gave you before reverting (+ fixing my own mistakes) and how much you gave me.
Oh, BTW, Holy Week this year began on March, 25. Easter was on April, 2; I last tried contacting you on March, 10. That’s two weeks. Also, as you can imagine, I have no way of knowing when you take holidays.You must understand that we all must adhere to the official OSM specifications. I’ve already cited you the relevant parts. If you don’t agree with the specification, you are welcome to propose and discuss changes. But meanwhile we all must stick to the current documentation.
In that Telegram thread you were also inquired why this segment was tagged as primary.Please also remember all OSM contributions are public, and in the spirit of transparency, discussions about specific contributions should also be public. Hiding these debates from an involved party for over a month is so really wrong and tells so much about the actor that I can’t believe you still keep victimizing yourself.
Have a nice day
- N-340 (575093014), v1
- 567543916, v3
- 567543917, v3
- 567543918, v3
- 567543919, v3
- N-340 (567543920), v3
- N-340 (22561584), v40
- Carretera de Cádiz - Gibraltar a Barcelona (32877366), v12
- 62407249, v18
- 62407277, v17
- 62407333, v18
- 75279897, v7
- Carretera de Cádiz - Gibraltar a Barcelona (119486297), v12
- Carretera de Cádiz - Gibraltar a Barcelona (119486298), v14
- Carretera de Cádiz - Gibraltar a Barcelona (119486299), v13
- Carretera de Cádiz - Gibraltar a Barcelona (119486303), v14
- Carretera de Cádiz - Gibraltar a Barcelona (119486310), v12
- Carretera de Cádiz - Gibraltar a Barcelona (119486318), v23
- Carretera de Cádiz - Gibraltar a Barcelona (119486320), v20
- N-340 (119486324), v19
Relations (5)
- 232131271, v7
- 263275583, v8
- 263275590, v7
- 827320868, v7
- 827320869, v5
- 832443276, v7
- 832457906, v8
- 889275961, v8
- 889275968, v5
- 1342440114, v5
- 1342440118, v5
- 1342440120, v4
- 1342440124, v5
- 1342440130, v5
- 1342440553, v5
- 2391790032, v4
- 2391790055, v4
- 2391938926, v4
- 2391938929, v4
- 2391938933, v4
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