Changeset: 60118947
Correction according wiki (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/RU:Tag:tower:type%3Dcooling, https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/RU:Key:man_made) 201806241450
Closed by ForstEK
Tags
created_by | Level0 v1.2 |
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Discussion
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Comment from stromo
This is a mechanical edit. I doubt, that you have really verified all 448 features on imagery and so reverted your changeset.
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Comment from ForstEK
Hi, young mapper!
First, this is not a mechanical edit, but a correction of the wrong tagging scheme according to the wiki. Openstreetmap is a large geodatabase, and there are rules, they are set out in the wiki, the database must be in order, and your rollback has returned a mess. The tag man_made=cooling_tower is outdated, it is described there. In addition, the package of edits have been removed extra outdated tags like source=bing (by the rules, this is written in the notes to the package of edits).
Second, if you "doubt", this not means, that I not tested - first find the example wrong changed object, and then discuss it.
Third, in addition to JOSM, there are many other, more complex and strong programs and tools - overpass, QGIS, ArcGIS, QuickMapServices, Level0 and others - the data of that changeset were checked by WMS layers bing and others in QGIS. -
Comment from woodpeck
Hi, young mapper yourself. Please be advised that what you have done *is* a mechanical edit, whether it contains mistakes or not. Any edit where you change objects without inspecting the individual object is a mechanical edit and MUST be discussed with the relevant community beforehand (in this case, either locally with the community in China or on an international mailing list or forum). Whether or not the wiki documents something as outdated does NOT make a difference, and crucially is NOT an excuse for an un-discussed mechanical edit (note that wiki pages do not necessarily reflect what is "correct" either). If you had checked your edits then you would for example have spotted that the cooling towers in https://www.openstreetmap.org/query?lat=40.46248&lon=90.85942#map=19/40.46219/90.85908&layers=D which you have modified contain a "chimney" node which is not how cooling towers ought to be mapped. Reverting an un-discussed mechanical edit (what stromo did) is ok; reverting such a revert (what you did) is the start of an edit war. Don't do it.
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Comment from ForstEK
Hi, woodpeck.
Try to understand.
Yes, I know this rule, but I repeat that the all objects in this changeset were checked by bing images in QGIS, the same could have been created in JOSM, so I do not agree about mechanical editing. Yes, you find a mistake with a chimney inside the cooling tower, but I only checked the cooling towers themselves by downloading them into geojson via overpass. Is it worth discussing every edit at all with the community? I think the question here is more of a tag choice - it doesn't matter to me, but man_made=tower + tower:type=cooling is used much more often according to taginfo and does not cause warnings in the wiki. I am against any "war of changesets", I think it is worth voting and choosing one end variant, but argumentatively, and not for mapping under the render. No one wants meaningless fixes, and everyone is sorry to redo their work, I also did a lot of work when processing these cooling towers, so this issue should be resolved from the top. -
Comment from dieterdreist
I propose you fix the Russian translation of the wiki definition for man_made=cooling_tower
The tag is not deprecated, although there is some discussion because of the 2 alternative ways to tag them -
Comment from ForstEK
It's deal with not a Russian or English page, but in a centralized solution. How many useless fixes! My argument is for the predominant option according to taginfo - there's less work to do to bring everything to one scheme (in the world). We have four different wiki pages now: in English, Czech, German and Russian. Accordingly to stay to just one option, but the current situation seems like a mess.
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Comment from dieterdreist
According to the recent discussion, there is not a clear winner between man_made=tower with tower:type=cooling and the tag man_made=cooling_tower, they are both used in similar numbers.
If you tag these as man_made=tower you will not create more consistency (there are already other objects with "tower" in the name which are established, e.g. man_made=water_tower (84000 uses) and power=tower. The definition of man_made=tower is in conflict with cooling towers for several reasons (not accessible, no platforms, not a building), so IMHO this is not a good solution. What are the advantages of requiring looking at the tower:type tag to see if it is an actual tower, or some other structure like a cooling tower?
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Nodes (16)
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