The story started from note 3835559, with a small bank in Taitung:

shop=金融服務 ? What is the meaning of that shop value? What kind of services or products are sold here? Is anything from https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop fitting? Maybe new value needs to be invented? Maybe this data is wrong and there is no shop here? Maybe it is not a shop but something else?

So what exactly, the “池上鄉農會” bank is?

I cannot answer since the Farmers’ Association (農會) is a complicated organisation. I simply don’t know at first. Therefore, I asked a question in OSM Cultural-spheres Group whether countries have such organisations as well:

There’s an agricultural group in Taiwan called “Framers’ Association” (農會) which aims for helping framers like providing farming tools, selling framers products, and providing financial services (i.e. banks) for framers. I noticed that some agricultural groups existed in Japan and Korea. In Japan, it is called “Japan Agricultural Cooperatives” (農業協同組合); while in Korea, it is called “National Agricultural Cooperative Federation” (농업협동조합). My question for folks who live in Japan and Korea: What’s the group do in your country? Like Framers’ Association in Taiwan? How do you map their office? My question for folks who live elsewhere: Do you have similar agricultural group in your countries? If so, how do you map their office?

(In Chinese) Where do your farmers go when they want to buy tools or sell products? Do they go to the local government or private market? What if they need to deposit money? Find a private bank?

Taiwanese 農會

A farmers association shall operate for such purposes assafeguarding farmers’ rights and interests, enhancing farmers’knowledge and skills, boosting the modernization of agriculture, increasing crop yields, improving farmers’ livelihood and developing rural economy. - Article 1, The Farmers Association Act

To put it simply, the Farmers’ Association (農會) is a Taiwanese agricultural cooperative, but lots of differences from a classic agricultural cooperative.

In detail, the Farmers’ Association is a group aimed at assisting farmers to finish certain tasks, such as promoting agricultural products, financial services, and technical support. However, since members aren’t fully farmers, the Farmers’ Association is not a purely agricultural cooperative.

At OSM, things associated with the Farmers’ Association are:

1. Offices for staff of the Farmers’ Association.
2. Shops for buying and selling agricultural products from farmers.
3. Banks for farmers.

Chinese agricultural groups

At first 快乐的老鼠宝宝 answered that no such organisation existed in China.

(In Chinese) If the “tools” you are referring to are farming implements or consumable goods (i.e. fertilizer), some farming implement shops sell them. I don’t know whether they are private stores or not. About depositing money they can deposit anywhere they please. But I guess only rural commercial banks are interested in establishing in the countryside. About the products, Farmers sell their products at a local collecting point. I feel that it is very marketised.

I then asked what a Rural Commercial Bank is. Based on the following answer, it is a semi-state-run bank. However, the private sector is not an agricultural cooperative as well.

Nevertheless, agricultural cooperatives do exist in China. I haven’t researched it, though.

Let’s talk about the selling side. Someone said marketing cooperatives in China sell agricultural products. But, I feel some nostalgia when hearing the cooperatives regain attention in 2022……

Korean 농협

Later, 띵야 answered the historial background of Korean National Agricultural Cooperative Federation (농업협동조합, NH):

(In Korean) As far as I know, since the Korean Agricultural Cooperative(NH) is copied from the Japanese Agricultural Cooperative(JA), I believe there’s little difference between the Korean one and the Japanese one.

I then asked how the NH was organised and how it tagged:

1. When a product goes from a farmer to a consumer, what does NH do? Do they have their stores? Or do they sell products to a market?
2. How to tag NH? Is there any unique key? Or the ‵office=*‵ tag is an office, ‵amenity=bank‵ is a bank?
3. Does the association need a new key? If so, can associations in Taiwan, Japan, and Korea both use the same tag?

This is his answer:

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The current organization of agricultural cooperatives in Korea is a bit complicated. This is because they have evolved to fit the situation and reality.

There are two main types of cooperative organizations: cooperative federations and financial institution organizations, which operate separately from cooperative federations.

Financial institution organizations are currently categorized and tagged as “banks” in OSM.(amenity=bank + brand=NH농협은행 + brand:en=NH Bank) Cooperative federations do a lot of things (see the Japanese example): they do some banking, they sell produce on behalf of contracted members, and for some crops, they buy in bulk.

Cooperative federations have local branches in each region, and local branches do their own business according to local conditions. Despite the translation difficulties, this is the shortest and simplest explanation of what a cooperative union does. https://m.blog.naver.com/pkingj/220474054309

At least in Korea and Japan, farmers’ unions (cooperative associations) have nothing to do with the government and are not farmers’ associations. (In Thailand, the farmers’ union is a government department).

I know that there are farmers’ unions all over the world, so I think it would be a good idea to have a new tag for them. If we don’t have a similar or suitable tag, we might want to create something like “office=guild”.

I’m sure there are all sorts of guild organizations out there, and I’m surprised that I can’t find a proper tag for them, at least on the OSM Wiki. https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1zbo

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(In Korean) Although several types of “cooperatives” do banking services, it is difficult to see them as “banks”. (You can tag it as a child property, though) Although “Nonghyup Bank” do exist in Korea, it is different to NH and its financial services. The “cooperative=agricultural” tag looks fine to me.

(In Korean) The https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ko:Tag:office%3Dcooperative tag seems suitable before we find or create a better tag.

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I finally asked if there are shops operated by NH. The answer is It exists. That is NH Nonghyup Hanaro Mart

Also, read 농업협동조합법 제57조(사업) for details. This is the law in South Korea defines what NH does.

Thread:

• NH organisation 1
• NH organisation 2
• NH organisation 3
• NH tagging 1
• NH tagging 2
• NH tagging 3

Japanese 農協

And Satoshi told me how JA Group organised and tagged:

(In Japanese) Japan Agricultural Cooperatives prepares anything that a farmer may need. As Wikipedia described, the cooperatives also run banking and insurance services. Furthermore, they hold agricultural seminars and do promotions and distribution for their agricultural products.

(In Japanese) Generally, I believe “amenity=bank” for the banking services is fine since they perform the same function as ordinary banks. (For office services,) looks like the “coopetative” tag can be used. About “association”, it’s similar but a little different. It is hard to decide (which tags should we use).

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So in a nutshell, the JA group is also aimed at assisting farmers and launching services such as financial services, agricultural tutoring, and promoting agricultural products.

Financial services tagged amenity=bank, but it is between a rock and a hard place for tagging between coopetative and association.

In the end?

I finally got some points from the organisation. Guess I will tag:

1. office=cooperative for offices.
2. shop=farm for agricultural products’ shops.
3. amenity=bank for banks operated by the Farmers’ Association.

Acknowledgements

I need to thank Mateusz Konieczny first. You are the reason why the diary was created.

Then I need to thank the OSM Cultural-spheres Group group. I wouldn’t understand such an organisation without the group’s help.

Finally, I want to thank those who participated in the discussion, ordered by speaking order:

1. 快乐的老鼠宝宝
2. 띵야
3. Herman
4. Satoshi
5. 🐭🐰🐱 🌸🍀🌼
6. Dongha Hwang